16 replies to this topic

[Retset]

I spent some time looking at my Milltek (second hand but new cat section and second hand back box) along with my 2.4 inlet manifold. I knew that looking was as far as I was going to get so I asked Paul Roughan (the PSR in PSR Automotive, Bishops Stortford) if he could fit it all.

For the manifold I had the gasket, servo pipe, suppressor, Vocky's EGR cheater, EGR blanking plate and a one way valve. These were accumulated from various sources and I had no ECU or dipstick brackets - Paul said he could fabricate these.

I popped into PSR now and again as I am nearby and so was privvy to the highs and lows of the job.

Paul's first challenge was that my car had the 120A alternator! I had assumed an early NA would only have 100A - after all, what is there to power? With the cover off the 2.4 didn't fit (as expected). Paul had the choice of sawing bits off the alternator or the side of the plenum off the manifold - both detailed on z22se.co.uk. Rather than risk mucking up my alternator, he sawed the side off the plenum and plastic welded it back on. Once welded, he coated it in a silicone sealant for good measure. After this minor hiccup it all fitted together.

I was there for the first start up which was faultless. Unfortunately, a flickering battery light on pulling away for a test drive showed all was not well Paul determined that the battery was not being charged at all. This was where the 'fun' started! Paul took it apart, check it was all connected OK (it was) and re-assembled but no joy. He spoke to an alternator expert who said that this particular alternator is temperamental, in that it is OK till disturbed but can then go FUBAR! The regulator is the problem apparently. The chap also recommended a re-condition. Paul did not want to tell me my car needed extra work when it was Ok before the job so set about the alternator. He found the regulator screws were rusty so he took off the regulator, cleaned everything up and fitted fresh screws. Everything then ran perfectly This put Paul to a lot of trouble and I wasn't charged for all this extra alternator hassle - phew! Seems ironic when you consider Paul chose not to disturb the alternator by sawing bits off

As an aside, the alternator expert could not fathom why a car like a VX220 needed such an over specified alternator!

That was the 2.4 manifold complete apart from having a 'temporary' ECU mount which seems perfectly good to me. However, Paul is having a batch of 'proper' ones made up so I will have one when they are complete.

The Milltek provided a few issues but nothing major. One tailpipe is slightly off centre. Paul said it is possible to get it back but it would involve more force than he was happy to put on a customer car. I told him not to worry.

After everthing was refitted, and an 8yr service, the car started faultlessly again so I could take it for a drive and 'run in' the ECU. Paul suggested using all the rev range but very gentle throttle openings.

I have driven the car about 50 miles since the running in and I can say I vastly prefer it's power delivery now. I am a fellow who likes a wadge of mid range torque and would probably never buy something like an RX8 or CTR where it's all at the top end. Even so, I found the VX220 a little strange because it had an engine that never needed revving and did not seem to benefit if you did.

The benefits of the 2.4 manifold are that the more you rev, the more power you get - I would imagine the power curve would also take an extra level of steepness on above 4000rpm. It's smooth from idle to the red line.

The mid range torque is undoubtedly a bit less. However, the car still has plenty of torque and I can still drive happily on mild throttle openings as before.

For the way it feels, I would not go back. However, is it actually any faster accelerating? I have to say that it feels a little quicker once overtaking. E.g, sit behind another car at a steady 4000rpm in 3rd gear whilst waiting for a gap. Floor it as the gap appears and it really goes past very well indeed I don't think it's a massive amount extra power though. It will make it much nicer on the track where it seemed a bit painful and pointless to approach the red line.

Milltek went on at the same time so I can't say what it has brought to the party. I certainly prefer the burble on start up, the little popping noises on the over run and the other bassy noises I hear. I wanted something Bedford friendly and understand it will be no problem. I think an intake system would round off the noise nicely but with no power benefits and worry about Bedford, I probably won't bother.

I am running the standard 2.2 map. I think the next thing to do would be to get a 2.4 map on to properly benefit from the mods.

For those in the South East that fancy a 2.4 etc., you may be interested to know that PSR are going to be offering some Stage 1, 2 and 3 kits fully fitted for the VX220. Stage 1 will be a Milltek and 2.4. A 2.4 map is also under development and may/may not be part of the Stage 1 - forgot to ask. Stages 2 and 3 are secret at the moment. However, I have a rough idea and have expressed interest

Big and thanks to Paul

Edited by Retset, 28 October 2008 - 01:03 PM.

[sworks]

That's handy to know (only half an hour away). I have had a 2.4 mani sat in my spare room for the last couple of months! Do you have an idea of the rough cost to fit you 2.4? Cheers

[slindborg]

JB, when you get a spare few hours then I recomend a trip to Track and Road in Rainham (essex) for a power run.... We can compare my STD one to your modded one pretty much the most accurate RR you will find avialable to us civvies in the UK

[mandarinvx]

I'm still not sure whether to fit mine The talk of losing mid range power (and it being noticable!) is a bit worrying Do you know what other options he will be offering, uprated injectors etc

[The Batman]

come on spill the beans on the secrets!

[Retset]

slindborg: Agreed - would be interesting. Ideally I'd like a 2.4 map first to complete "Stage 1"

sworks: We agreed a certain price as an October 'opening special' (same as standard services which were October discounted) and I won't divulge it as it's not that relevant. I suggest you give Paul a ring direct and discuss - he's a super chap and won't give you any BS. Whatever you agree is what it will cost. I'm sure it will come with an alternator caveat though if yours is 120A as he is now aware of the fragility of the alternator

mandarinvx: I suggest you try a car with it fitted. For me the linearity of power delivery and a top end that does something is all part of the sports car experience. The standard VX was a bit too TDi for me if you get my drift. That said, there is still plenty of mid range torque and you can still do things like accelerate from 20mph in 5th! You are not near me but if you are up this way you are welcome to drive mine.

Joe589: It's stuff that still needs developing. May not work out and would then never be offered. Would be unfair of me to steal his thunder. Suffice to say I have been looking longingly at the kid's piggy banks

[MartinS]

Cant say I noticed losing any mid range with the 2.4, just more top end. But I think most people would say, you cant just fit it and all is well. General consensus would suggest that a remap is needed, and thats the real problem area with any na mods. My 2.4 was done with a special map and other changes. Martin s

[slindborg]

TBH I'd like to see a power run + AFR log of just an std engine with a 2.4 inlet fitted Would be interesting

[Retset]

Guess you would be as it's 'your' manifold How much does it cost anyway?

[slindborg]

cant be much more than £30 for a power run... and then the £10 for a load of food from the kebab van

[Retset]

OK - we'll arrange this

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

still waiting for Courtnay to give me a ring since June......... must put it on my to do list tomorrow

[drpau]

Yeah, it didnt half fly when you were up the revs with the 2.4 mainfold. Before the 2.4 manifold it was as if the engine was about to explode when you approached the redline. When you fit the 2.4 inlet you end up getting caught out and hitting the rev limiter as it pulls much stronger up top and catches you by surpise and you can still feel it pulling whereas with the standard inlet it had well run out of puff by this point. Shame there isnt a 'best of both worlds' which keeeps the midrange the same and gives you the top end. Its fun for overtaking but you find yourself always having to rag it to get anywhere. Maybe a nice exhaust manifold and sports cat etc would improve the mid range scenario?

[rturner]

TBH I'd like to see a power run + AFR log of just an std engine with a 2.4 inlet fitted Would be interesting

I did many real world performance runs with a Performance Box GPS logger before and after fitting the inlet to an otherwise standard car. The first ones I did after just 30 or so miles driving, which made no difference and someone on the forum said I should have let the ECU adapt over more miles. After around 400 miles, there was still absolutely no difference in performance pre/post manifold. So I removed the 2.4 mani and sold it.

The engine sounded better (throatier) with the inlet fitted, but in terms of actual real life measurable performance...not a thing. I can't help but wonder how much of the legend of the inlet manifold is based on 'It feels faster' rather than 'I can prove it is faster'.

Anyway, that was just my experience of it, for what it's worth. If everyone else's standard car + manifold is really so much better then I'm genuinely pleased for you and just pissed off that my 6 month wait for the part yielded such a disappointing result on my car.

Rhys

[Retset]

Like I said, I don't think mine is actually any quicker - not by much any way - I prefer the way it drives though. I reckon a 2.4 map is the key and hope to do that within a reasonable time frame.

[drpau]

Yeah, what you gain in one area you lose in another I think.....

[PSR]

Figures are just bar talk anyway Even if its completely the same as standard but the dyno plot has moved up, providing it improves your driving experience then to an extent the numbers are purely academic. That said, everyone drives differently and might not welcome the power shift so its each to there own, yes everyone wants to see a 20bhp gain but alot of factures come into na tuning, to get a change in drivablitly from purely a bolt on mod is abnormal in itself. Its not like you can just turn up the boost

That said a new ECU map would be vital to exploit all its potential, the ECU can learn and adjust to many elements but a 2.4 manifold is likely to push the parameters outside of its adjustment, remember its still expecting standard readings from all its sensors.

Although the three stages are yet to be completed essentially there will be a stage 1 being na and 2/3 forced induction one on a standard engine and the other on a built engine for the job. They might not ever get off the drawing board but if they do you will all know first some of you sooner then others

PSR