138 replies to this topic

[fezzasus]

Right get it now .Thanks for that.I was not after a recommendation just seemed strange semi and full had the same aeca spec

UNLESS they're different ACEA years. eg. ACEA '04 is lowwer quality than ACEA '08 - each time the specs get improved the severity of the tests, and therefore quality of oil increases.

[Winstar]

Right get it now .Thanks for that.I was not after a recommendation just seemed strange semi and full had the same aeca spec

UNLESS they're different ACEA years. eg. ACEA '04 is lowwer quality than ACEA '08 - each time the specs get improved the severity of the tests, and therefore quality of oil increases.

Is there a way of telling which year ACEA spec it refers too? as most oils I've seen just quote the A and B numbers.

[fezzasus]

Right get it now .Thanks for that.I was not after a recommendation just seemed strange semi and full had the same aeca spec

UNLESS they're different ACEA years. eg. ACEA '04 is lowwer quality than ACEA '08 - each time the specs get improved the severity of the tests, and therefore quality of oil increases.

Is there a way of telling which year ACEA spec it refers too? as most oils I've seen just quote the A and B numbers.

Typically the back of the container will read 'ACEA 2008 A3/B4' or 'ACEA '08 A3/B4'

If they don't have the year, you should be able to tell from the API specification; The API specification is the American equivalent of ACEA specification - it too progresses into higher quality grades with time. It started with API SA [just base oils] to API SN currently, prior to that was SM, SL, SJ. So you have a choice of ACEA A3/B4 with API SN or ACEA A3/B4 API SJ, you know that the former is much newer and designed to higher specifications.

Edited by fezzasus, 30 May 2011 - 09:48 AM.

[KurtVerbose]

That's an excellent write up. fezzasus, what's your opinion on oil change intervals?

[fezzasus]

That's an excellent write up.

fezzasus, what's your opinion on oil change intervals?

This could be a very long, or a very short topic - i'll try to cover both;

The short one: do what the manufacturer says

The long one: The manufacturers put durability above anything else. They simply can't afford a reputation of engine failures - inside the warrantee period this means massive replacement costs, outside of the warrentee period this could mean class action suits if it's found that there's a defective part - or in this case - oil drain intervals that are too long when the specified oil is used. It also means massive brand damage.

The main factor when it comes to oil drain intervals is this; there's simply no incentive for the manufacturer to increase oil drain intervals:
- the end user pays for them, not the manufacturer.
- Their dealerships make more money with regular oil drains.
- there's no legislative penalties for having short oil drain intervals (5 L of oil every 10,000 miles is minimal compared to the L of fuel used over those 10,000 miles)

So when they specify oil drain intervals. They mean it. Oils on the market today are tested for use over a much longer period than 10,000 miles when being qualified (I ran an oil in my old car for 40,000 miles for this very reason - with engine inspection before and after).

In America it's slightly different. Firstly the quality of the oil specifications is generally lower than Europe; this means cheaper oil which competes on price rather than quality. The only way to make money from this is to sell more of it, so places (particularly quick oil change places) still push the 3000 mile oil drain interval hard. It's completely false even there - the oil can easily do 10,000 miles and most OEMs are pushing up to 6000 as a minimum now.

In short; there's really no reason to change it less than 10,000 miles. Stick to the recommendation in your service manual - but also keep in mind that (at least for the VX) this was written 10 years ago, and the quality of oil now compared to then has increased massively. The oil you're putting in today is better than it ever has been, so you shouldn't be worrying about protecting an aging engine - that's already happening.

[bunsenburner]

My oil changes are very frequent (every 2 or 3 track days) because it's an SC and mainly used on track. Does the change in colour indicate a change in oil performance, as mine goes dark pretty quickly, which makes me want to change it!

[fezzasus]

My oil changes are very frequent (every 2 or 3 track days) because it's an SC and mainly used on track.

Does the change in colour indicate a change in oil performance, as mine goes dark pretty quickly, which makes me want to change it!

Myself and Ray spoke about this and my belief is that SC'ed cars overfuel much more than NAs (especially NAs on standard maps which are typically lean). partially burnt fuel will enter the oil and cause it to discolour much more rapidly (similar to diesels). Since diesel and petrol oil specs have been combined for a long time there's not much worry - oils are required to handle up to 4 % soot by mass; most diesels soot to about 0.5 % and petrols will be much, much lower than that. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[techieboy]

Yep, combination of overfueling and no real PCV system on the SC conversions lead to oil going properly dark in a few hundred miles.

[KurtVerbose]

Thanks for spending the time to write that Fezzasus, that's interesting reading. The one manufacturer that does have long intervals is BMW. I used to have one and couldn't believe how long the intervals were - to the extent that I had mine done more frequently as I didn't want to have to replace the turbo. I think BMW's motivation is to reduce service costs - something they're very hot on. The other area where car companies do have long oil change intervals is with automatic transmission fluid - so many boxes are now sealed for life. There are several companies making good business changing the oil on sealed for life transmissions. I don't know if this is also your specialist subject, but if so, is this also not needed?

[fezzasus]

Thanks for spending the time to write that Fezzasus, that's interesting reading.

The one manufacturer that does have long intervals is BMW. I used to have one and couldn't believe how long the intervals were - to the extent that I had mine done more frequently as I didn't want to have to replace the turbo. I think BMW's motivation is to reduce service costs - something they're very hot on.

The other area where car companies do have long oil change intervals is with automatic transmission fluid - so many boxes are now sealed for life. There are several companies making good business changing the oil on sealed for life transmissions. I don't know if this is also your specialist subject, but if so, is this also not needed?

I do not know as much about ATF fluids, but I am certain the base philosophy - which is to protect the machinery above any cost or drain interval will still dominate all decisions. Oil technology in general has improved massively in the last 10 years; it's not surprising to see large changes in industry thinking (for us we wish it could be even quicker at times)

[tone]

Nice write up Fezzasus. What does it mean if the oil spec quotes more than one B/number? eg: API SL/CF, ACEA A3, B3, B4 VW500.00, 505.00, MB229.1

[Rickwoo118]

Thanks for posting this but I think I need a degree to understand it all. In a nutshell what make of oil and vis should I use for my turbo?

[Qazax]

I did my placement year for Lubrizol. But I am an IT geek so it was on the helpdesk fixing computers

[fezzasus]

Nice write up Fezzasus.

What does it mean if the oil spec quotes more than one B/number? eg:

API SL/CF, ACEA A3, B3, B4
VW500.00, 505.00, MB229.1

an A3/B4 oil covers all the tests and exceeds the specification of an A3/B3 oil. but some oil marketers choose to explicitly write A3/B3 and A3/B4 to ensure someone doesn't reject their product if their car manual tells them A3/B3

[fezzasus]

Thanks for posting this but I think I need a degree to understand it all. In a nutshell what make of oil and vis should I use for my turbo?

Fuchs Supersyn 5W-40 will cover all your needs, and is £28.

[Rickwoo118]

Thanks for posting this but I think I need a degree to understand it all. In a nutshell what make of oil and vis should I use for my turbo?

Fuchs Supersyn 5W-40 will cover all your needs, and is £28.

Cheers.

[fezzasus]

FYI. For anyone who predominately tracks their car, this oils is very good and a seriously good price: http://www.opieoils....chTerm=oldlabel

[siztenboots]

the porsche takes nearly 10L for a oil change , I dread to think what the OPC charges

[fezzasus]

the porsche takes nearly 10L for a oil change , I dread to think what the OPC charges

Cheeky way of increasing oil drain intervals - increase the amount of oil.

[Zoobeef]

Probably to reduce the risk of losing oil pressure when cornering.