68 replies to this topic

[Muncher]

Well I've finally got round to starting this despite having the bits for quite some time. A couple of years ago I was chatting to Jon at Courtenays about building a new Z22SE engine. At the time he had two brand new LSJ engines which came from Lotus, one of which he was going to put in his car. It seemed a good idea to swap to the LSJ instead, it's a square engine so should rev more easily, it's got a smaller, lighter crank and already has forged rods and strong saab pistons as standard. Plus it came with both timing chains, a new water pump, all new bearings so it was very cost effective compared to buying a used block and fitting it with new bearings, rods and pistons, not to mention more reliable. This is being coupled with a B207 head, blower cams, uprated valve springs and the standard sodium filled saab valves. vocky is soon to start porting that for me. On top of that is a new Harrop TVS running a 6 rib belt, z22YH coil pack, Porsche throttle body all driven by a VXT ECU. Aside from that I have a new fuel pump and a 3" Chris Tullett exhaust, so hopefully I have all the bases covered. The full spec is: LSJ Head B207 head (ported) Saab Sodium filled valves Supertech 78lb valve springs New valve stem seals Comp Blower Cams Harrop TVS Brand new LSJ Standard Bottom End + Under piston oil jets Modified Oil Cooler/Filter path Lightweight Billet Flywheel CMS Clutch Aluminium Alternator and crank pulleys (6 rib)

[The Batman]

sounds familiar interested about the alternator, which one are you using? standard z22se one with 6 rib pulley on? or lsj one?

[Muncher]

The z22se one with a 6 rib pulley. Vocky is making up a little adapter to line it up properly. I'm not sure I'm getting mixed up but wouldn't the LSJ one run backwards using our belt setup, which causes it to overheat because the cooling fan inside would be running the wrong way.

[The Batman]

yeah the lsj runs backwards but then you could probably rewire it to work.... have had alook at welding a bracket onto the alternator and speaking to exmantaa about it sounds pretty easy what power are you going for? i have done a fair bit of research into the lsj pistons and rods and they seem to be good for 320ish

[alanoo]

Btw for you high power TVS guys, ZZP have some funny different stage supercharged cams which could give some more power comparend to the normal spec "blower" Comp cams

[vocky]

bare block



oil jets

[techieboy]

Hope you're making two of everything Neil? As Joe said, everything I could find out about the internals said 320bhp was about the limit for the pistons before uprated versions need to be fitted.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

This what we've been discussing Joe?

[The Batman]

yup

[Muncher]

Higher than that joe, hopefully closer to 400bhp. There is a lot of discussion about this but from what I have been told, from atomx and Jon the pistons and rods are good for far higher than that.

[The Batman]

i have never found any info like that, but i will watch with interest p.s. i spoke with Jon about this and he agrees that there whp is very close to our bhp at the fly. Spoke about power levels and he says that 350 is max on those pistons and rods but 320 is to be safe

Edited by joe_589, 12 July 2011 - 01:52 PM.

[NickB787]

Btw for you high power TVS guys, ZZP have some funny different stage supercharged cams which could give some more power comparend to the normal spec "blower" Comp cams

I remember reading about them ZZP Cams Shame I had brought mine already

[FLD]

I'll be watching this one closely. It will be especially interesting to see how loud it is. Fingers crossed you're within track limits.

Edited by FLD, 12 July 2011 - 03:20 PM.

[Exmantaa]

This sounds all too familiar; I have exactly the same here waiting in my garage... (Just need to find the time to start converting.) That oil cooler connection was one of my concerns, so good modding here! I will convert to the standard LSJ US ecu, so can use the standard 68mm ETB plus the coil on plugs. And with the HP tuners program this is fairly tunable and lots of back-up available. For cams I have a pair of GMR cams available, but being regrinds the base circle is beyond the lash adjuster range. need to find a good solution for that...

Edited by Exmantaa, 12 July 2011 - 03:42 PM.

[Muncher]

I'll be watching this one closely. It will be especially interesting to see how loud it is. Fingers crossed you're within track limits.

I'll get a second silencer put in if need be.

I've just had a long chat with Jon and we're happy with the pistons, looking at them objectively they're certainly stronger than the z20let pistons and we know the kind of abuse it took to get them to fail during testing (220 hours solid at 225bhp iirc) and get there are cars happily running with 300bhp uasing them. They won't see big power for very long at all and under minimal load compared to the other cars those pistons feature in.

Plus there's big advantages in using stock pistons in terms of noise, oil consumption and not to mention cost.

[Nev]

Wow, thats nice strong looking block + liners, no wonder the Americans use them without major mods to make 600 to 800 BHP.

[FLD]

Wow, thats nice strong looking block + liners, no wonder the Americans use them without major mods to make 600 to 800 BHP.

The block is the same as the Z22 just with different machining. I'm no mechanical engineer so I'd be interested to hear if the difference in stroke affects the loads on the liners (side thrust perhaps??). I did find an alternative dry liner but I dont think this addresses the problems that cause failure.

Muncher, I have a 2.0L crank, rods and pistons if you need spares. I'm quite keen not to loose the 10% capacity.

EDIT: I also have a US ecu if its any good to you?

Edited by FLD, 12 July 2011 - 06:05 PM.

[alanoo]

Yep it is indeed a bit affected by the rod angle. honestly a Gen 1 block will not last long at 500 or 600... but apparently the Gen 2 block are very capable to run these kind of power levels without the need for resleeving, which is impressive

[Exmantaa]

We have thin sleeves, so no idea how long they will last under sustained power... The gen 2 blocks (LNF etc.) are already quite strong, but ZZP makes an support to take she standard sleeves up to 800+ BHP....

[Muncher]

Wow, thats nice strong looking block + liners, no wonder the Americans use them without major mods to make 600 to 800 BHP.

Muncher, I have a 2.0L crank, rods and pistons if you need spares. I'm quite keen not to loose the 10% capacity.

EDIT: I also have a US ecu if its any good to you?

Thanks, that's good to know, I don't think I'll have any immediate need for them however.

I'm running the VXT ECU which I think will be the best option.