98 replies to this topic

[smiley]

The LSJ at 205hp has the M62 fitted

Oops

Get the harrop on exmantaa

[Exmantaa]

The LSJ at 205hp has the M62 fitted

Oops

Get the harrop on exmantaa

Yes, the LSJ has the M62 and 3.35 pulley standard and indeed is rated at 205HP by GM. Only that number seems underrated as the US users repeatedly find that a standard LSJ put 215-220HP down on the wheels. (What should correspond with the 250BHP of the SC-ed 2,2's)

And it's not a lot of effort for only a few gains, as that VX had a knackered engine and I had a full working LSJ engine in the garage. This journey is also more about exploiting the LSJ's ecu tuning possibilities with HP tuners, as the 2,2 sc-remapping is far from perfect. (been there, done that...)
If this tuning is honed out there are a few forged 2,2's waiting to fit the same ecu with a 58-2 trigger wheel.


@ Muncher; overheating the alternator is my main worry, but as said I have a 100A 2,2 alternative. Only still sourcing a good 6-rib pulley for that one, so the LSJ alt is a quick fix for now.

[Muncher]

I've got a 6 rib pulley for my alternator, Vocky is soon to be working out how to fit it onto the 100amp one, as it needs spacing out I think.

[Exmantaa]

Yep, that one needs spacing out on a z22se Alt... Small update; wiring is in and the SC is fitted. It now needs an exhaust, some fluids and some intake tubing with the MAF.

Edited by Exmantaa, 10 September 2011 - 11:51 PM.

[Exmantaa]

Had planned to do some more work today, and I did.

Yesterday spend some hours on the wiring. I had prepared the loom as good as possible on the engine stand, but actually fitting it into a VX is something different.

The modded LSJ loom with the X2 & X3 connectors:



The part from the ecu to the X2/X3 connectors is still unfinished, as I still need to sort out a few signal wires. (VSS sensor, ECT to the Stack etc.) Also the LSJ runs with a MAF sensor, so I had to make a temporary inlet tract with the MAF and an airfilter:



Today I finished and double checked all the wiring and fixed a minor issue with a leaking heater hose bleed nipple.
Last work was on the exhaust. As this LSJ engine and ecu mapping were still a big questionmark for me (the engine was shipped over from the US and stood several years unused in my garage), I needed to fit some sort of exhaust that was "reasonably quiet" for my neighbours.
So a std cast manifold with the std downpipe it was. (Had planned to fit my 2,5" Piper cat section, but the O2 sensor was really stuck and could not transfer it over)
So instead of the Piper I had some fun drilling the precat out of the std pipe...
Muffler is a std VXT item with the bigger U-bend. Nice and quiet for now:



I could not think of any more work at this point. I had charged the battery overnight and after checking the main connections and especially all earth leads again, I removed the spark plugs to check for oil pressure. On fill-up I already had filled some oil through the oil cooler hose backwards, so the pump should be pre-lubricated and the oil cooler conections filled.
On cranking the oil light quickly went out, so that was a bit of a relief. So spark plugs in again, the coil-on-plugs re-fitted and then prime the fuel circuit by bridging the relais.
Fuel pressure was there, so then rolled the car outside as I expected some serious oil smoke from all the oil in the cylinders.



Ignition on and time to hit the starter button to see what was what. It made a few splutters in the beginning, but nothing more than that... But it sounded sometimes like it would ignite, so into the car and a new try with some applied throttle. After some coughing and spluttering, it suddenly sprang into life with an almighty blue smoke cloud.
It runs!! And not to bad either with this GM stage 2 base map...
The ecu still needs to learn the engine parameters and O2 corrections, but it idles already perfect and has quite a crisp throttle response.
And now the engine has cleared all the oil, it starts very quicly too on the first try.



Could not drive it, as I still had to bleed the new clutch cylinder. So my mate came over with some brake fluid and then that was a quick 2-person job. I fitted a std turbo clutch to this engine and the clutch pedal feels perfect.
As my mate was still sitting there from the clutch bleed process, he got the honour to try it out around the block. And according to him, the LSJ engine drives "remarkably smooth and standard" from tickover with this mapping.



Need to wire up my ecu tool now to read out the ecu, probably clear some minor fault codes and work on the still open connections. But all in all this was a very good day. IT RUNS!!

Edited by Exmantaa, 11 September 2011 - 10:07 PM.

[techieboy]

Great progress. Have you had to do anything to the ECU to switch off any extra functionality or immobiliser (if it even has one)?

[Exmantaa]

Yep, switching off the VATS (Vehicle Anti Theft System) is the main issue to make an LSJ ecu run in a VX. But that is only 1 mouseclick, just as is switching off all AC parameters, or the 2nd post cat O2 sensor...

[Aerodynamic]

This stuff is new to me. you replace your 2.2 NA engin with a 2.0 NA engin? Those 249bhp with this LSJ engin was that NA? Since your doing a lot of wiring, do you know where I can find a wiring diagram for VX220, I´m myself thinking of replacing my engin. Do you know the weight of either LSJ and Z22 engin? Thank you, Per

[fezzasus]

This stuff is new to me. you replace your 2.2 NA engin with a 2.0 NA engin?

Those 249bhp with this LSJ engin was that NA?

Since your doing a lot of wiring, do you know where I can find a wiring diagram for VX220, I´m myself thinking of replacing my engin.
Do you know the weight of either LSJ and Z22 engin?

Thank you, Per

It's superchaged, the idea behind using the LSJ is there is much more support for tuning it as it's used very widely in the US, it is also a shorter stroke length which in theory means higher revs vs. the 2.2

[Exmantaa]

And in addition to the above, it has stronger internal parts, a slightly lower compression (9,5;1) and the Saab head with piston oil squirters fitted standard. So no need to open up the engine till 300+BHP.

[alanoo]

Nice one Get some cams in, and a good exhaust system, and it will be perfect

Edited by alanoo, 12 September 2011 - 10:10 AM.

[alanoo]

by the way ? Shouldn't you fit neutral or balance shafts delete asap when it's still easy to do ? Most of the other easy upgrades are ok with the rear clam on and/or without lifting the engine... apart from this one

[Exmantaa]

Yeah, neutrals will be in when I exploit the engine further rpm-wise. But as the state of this engine was a big unknown for me, I decided to see it run first as-it-was. Cam wise i'm not sure yet. This still has the std LSJ cams and not sure on the upgrade (ZZP's?) I have a pair of GMR cams lying around, but these have lifter issues... Somewhere in the winter I will pull the engine again, fit some neutrals with new chains and mount my GM ported head. First I now need to sort out some minor ecu stuff, like the fan switch on temps and clear some EML's that are most likely emission or AC related. (And I need a decent exhaust on this thing, so that 3" Tullett is very tempting.)

Edited by Exmantaa, 12 September 2011 - 10:53 AM.

[alanoo]

the GMR ones are a bit of a mystery to me they are not agressive enough to need mech lifters, but I understand the issue is with lower base circle diam, so you would normally have to shim the lifters, which cannot be done on Saab heads... I read somewhere that the LNF lifters are a bit longer, so may work if it is true...

[zezinio]

Very nice, I like the picture of the clam hanging up. I had to do the same thing when I was fitting the LSJ on the Speedster.

[Exmantaa]

Hi Elisee, This evening I hooked up the HP-Tuners to your old LSJ ecu and did some logging. Most codes are cleared now (O2 sensor related) and the EML light is out. Need to work on the fan settings and still have a bit hunting idle. Think that is related to my dodgy intake & MAF tubing, so need to improve that first...

[Exmantaa]

I'm following the Z20LET ecu with interest, but I'm also busy with my own ecu.

While it starts and runs pretty OK, I have a bit of a lumping idle with the occasional almost-stall. Not how it should be, so Ì hooked up the laptop and HP-Tuners to see what was what.
This ecu has an "Intense Tuning" stage 2 map loaded and according to the previous owner it was mapped especially for use as a stand alone engine. (Correct Eliseé??)

Logged several parameters, but did not make much sense. Ignition on idle was all over the place and my O2 sensor was not showing much switching.
Obvious one was an O2 sensor fault and remembering that the old LSJ manifold had a sensor fitted, I transfered that one into my Piper downpipe. (Checked it's correct working first with a gas torch and voltage-meter. Perfect.)
A new try with the 2,5" Piper on; same result.. Only 30-40mv sensor output while that should switch above and under ~450mv... Sometimes the engine idled perfect with a 950mv reading, then it collapsed and again the lean 40mv. So sensor was ok and something is fishy in the mapping.

Long story short, it was simply not idleing (or running at all) in closed loop... In the scanner you can real-time enforce the ecu to deviate, so a click on the closed-loop [ON] button resulted in a perfect idle.



In the logging screenshot you can see a steady 850rmp and the switching O2 sensor output:





Time for a new fault code reading and I now only get a IC pump fault (not yet connected) and the occasional faulty EVAP vent valve. (Which a VX doesn't have...).
Need to switch that one off and do a thorough check on the dodgy mapping. Not only that closed loop issue, but also my fan control settings are idiotic. (results in always on)
Also found that this mapping is has switched off the MAF sensor above 0Hz (= always off), so I can remove it if I want to. (Think I will just load a GM stage 2 map into the ecu and work from that, instead of hunting for all possible faults in this one...

Edited by Exmantaa, 13 September 2011 - 06:51 PM.

[techieboy]

the occasional faulty EVAP vent valve. (Which a VX doesn't have...).

Yes we do. I've started getting a P0443 (Evap purge) fault code on every restart of my car. Managed to pick up a VXT valve but unfortunately, it's not the same as fitted to the Z22SE.

[Exmantaa]

the occasional faulty EVAP vent valve. (Which a VX doesn't have...).

Yes we do. I've started getting a P0443 (Evap purge) fault code on every restart of my car. Managed to pick up a VXT valve but unfortunately, it's not the same as fitted to the Z22SE.

Correct, we have an EVAP Purge valve on the charcoal cannister. I have that one too fitted and it works, but the US cars have more emission stuff; a fuel tank pressure sensor and an additional EVAP Vent valve. That one I need to switch off.

[Exmantaa]

Small update; Uploaded my 1st modified tune to my LSJ ecu. Had a bit of a crash course "modern engine management" and it's not that easy to find the right parameters in all the available GM tables. Luckily you can do such off-line on the couch with some coffee, so found some dodgy looking "closed loop vs. ECT" settings that I corrected back to the original GM values. Also turned the fuel trims back on, switched off the 2 fault codes (was quicker than wiring up an IC pump relais) and changed the fan settings. Actual uploading my 1st tune, or calibration, to the ecu was a bit nerving after a connection error code, but a 2nd attempt was finished in 47 seconds. The engine now idles perfect in closed loop and the MIL light is off with no codes. Fan is also off, only it will still not turn on at the desired temperature. But manual on and off switching now at least works again. And thinking of that now, I might have copied some imperial Fahrenheit values into a Metric Celsius Map.