164 replies to this topic

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

[Zoobeef]

just do your lorry licenses. B+E comes free then

[mceeaw]

'JimmyJamJerusalem', on 27 Nov 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Joe, if you use my trailer and have a big enough tow car then you do not need the license

Quote

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:

• a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas

• the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
• Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.

Towing caravans

As for towing caravans, existing general guidance recommends that the laden weight of the caravan does not exceed 85% of the unladen weight of the car. In the majority of cases, caravans and small trailers towed by cars should be within the new category B threshold.
An exemption from the driver licensing trailer limit allows a category B licence holder to tow a broken down vehicle from a position where it would otherwise cause danger or obstruction to other road users.
By passing a category B test national categories F (tractor), K (pedestrian controlled vehicle) and P (moped) continue to be added automatically.

The above DVLA info is correct! I managed to pick up a paper copy of this, highlighted the important bits and kept it in my glovebox just in case I were to ever get pulled over and queried on it... there seems to be a lot of confusion about towing on a B licence (as shown on this thread! ) and figured it would be good to show the DVLA-printed info to police if there were ever the need (thankfully not).

'JimmyJamJerusalem', on 27 Nov 2011 - 8:50 PM, said:

'JohnTurbo', on 27 Nov 2011 - 6:53 PM, said:

Show me a car towing another car on a trailer with a combined plated weight of under 3500kg and I will show you a fiesta towing a specialist trailer with a 'cheating' plated weight with a carbon caterham on it.

It may be possible to do with a VX but it would mean incredibly careful selection of towing vehicle and a pretty much bespoke trailer.

For example the MAM of your average 4x4 is about 2.8 tonnes.
(Edit a Discovery 3 has a GVW of 3.2tonnes!)

Hang on though Jimmy... is this what you've done?

Here goes

BMW X1 - Unladen weight 1470kg, Tow limit 2000kg.

Brian James A-T-532 MAM 1300kg, unladen weight 340kg

VX approx 850kg

Combined total = 1470 + 340 + 850 = 2660kg so nearly a tonne to spare on that front

Trailer MAM is also nearly 200kg less than the unladen weight of the X1 so all good on that front too

The trailer MAM is less than unladen weight = all good

However, it is not the towing capacity of the car that you need to add to trailer MAM (and be less than 3.5t), it is the car's gross weight. This is can be found stamped on chassis plate- from memory there should be 4 numbers, the 2 smaller ones are front/rear axel max loading weight, the largest number is the gross train weight (loading + towing max) and then the remaining figure is your gross vehicle weight which is what you need to add to trailer MAM and be less than 3.5t.

'gbobm', on 27 Nov 2011 - 9:26 PM, said:

The Mondeo and the ifor williams horse trailor that we had, combined gross+plated came to 3480kg.
The Trailor was originally plated for 1500kg but we had it re-plated to 1380kg's so that it would be below the limit for mrs M to drive.

She did her trailer test recently and apparently it's like sitting a car test all over again. No crossing hands, checking your blind-spots/mirrors every 7seconds or so. Glad I passed 3 months before they stopped giving b+e entitlement!

As Mr M has said, I got around doing my test for a couple of years by towing the below set up;

Ford Mondeo 2.0tdci 130bhp (plenty torque/oomph for towing, had no bother on that front at all)

• Unladen weight (found on V5) = 1505kg
• Gross weight = 2035kg
• Towing capacity = 1800kg

Trailer- Ifor Williams HB401

• Unladen weight = 780kg
• MAM = 1450kg (comes with a plate on it saying 1600kg, however you can get the manufacturer to replate to any figure you want as long as it is within the range stamped on the hitch. IW did this for me for free when we took the trailer to a local dealer for a service) Trailer left with 670kg payload which was enough for my one small horse!

So for my old set up;

Car kerb weight (1505kg) > Trailer MAM (1450kg) = CHECK
Car gross weight (2035kg) + Trailer MAM (1450kg) = 3485kg < 3500kg = CHECK

So perfectly legal, towed fine (even up steep, wet, muddy hills!) and probably a lot more balanced in terms of weight/power than those not having to worry about B licence restrictions who think they can chuck two horses and a big trailer on the back of a Freelander "because it's a 4x4"!

However, after a couple of years towing, the Mondeo was going through rather a lot of suspension parts etc and not worth fixing up and we have swapped to a Fourtrak which meant me doing my towing test. I booked an asssessment session with a local company who spent an hour watching me manouvere the trailer then take it for a drive and since I'd been towing competently for 2 years already, they were happy to book me in for a one day training/test session- £300 all in, including use of their vehicle/trailer/fuel for the day and the test. Spent the morning nailing the reverse manouvere (this is the first thing you have to do after the "show/tell" nonsense questions and is pretty easy to screw up if you've not practiced/been trained, there is not much margin for error!) then did the test in the afternoon. (and passed, phew!) The more days training you need the more £££ obviously, but worth being confident that you won't have to fork out more £££ on retesting if you fail!

Very best of luck with the TA plans for 2012, I'm sure gbobm will be at Knockhill if he can to cheer you on.

PS- doing your basic lorry licence © does NOT entitled you to tow as B+E, you must do the artic lorry test (C+E) in order to also gain automatic B+E licence. HGV test will cost you much more than B+E and if you don't have lorry driving plans in the future, doing C+E not really going to be worth your while!

[G-Bob]

'mceeaw', on 28 Nov 2011 - 1:42 PM, said:

<random towing info>

OI!!! Get back to your horsey forums!!!

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Wahoo, I have found an advantage to being old... I can tow anything I like including a 7.5 tonne truck and trailer.

[siztenboots]

'Cliffie', on 30 Nov 2011 - 2:09 PM, said:

Wahoo, I have found an advantage to being old... I can tow anything I like including a 7.5 tonne truck and trailer.

nominated tow driver then

[Goosenka]

'Cliffie', on 30 Nov 2011 - 2:09 PM, said:

Wahoo, I have found an advantage to being old... I can tow anything I like including a 7.5 tonne truck and trailer.

Just read my license and I have the same

[vocky]

same here, anything upto 12000Kg

[techieboy]

Same here, except mines anything up to 44000kg.

[luke.]

Thats what I can drive

Edited by luke., 30 November 2011 - 06:08 PM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

'Cliffie', on 30 Nov 2011 - 2:09 PM, said:

Wahoo, I have found an advantage to being old... I can tow anything I like including a 7.5 tonne truck and trailer.

[LY_Scott]

A solution to your towing needs Joe?....get your piggy bank out.

http://www.ebay.co.u...s&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

[techieboy]

I so want to do Le Mans in one of those, one day. There's usually some real bargain transporters on Motorsport Ads. If you've got a licence for a 17tonner.

[LY_Scott]

It belongs to a stock car driver Wullie Hardie. There was a 40k National Hot Rod that went with it. I'm sure I posted up a pic of it from the Autosport show (2009???) frightening part is I never think he even used it. Some people really have more money than sense.

#Jealous.


Edit: here it is, from my phtobucket account...

Edited by LY055SCO, 01 December 2011 - 04:56 PM.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

confused by towage stuff. I'll be at as many races as my next years budget allows. Moral support/getting in the way

[siztenboots]

would it be possible to toe a VX with an A frame custom made ?

[techieboy]

Only if all the wheels where still attached and pointing in the right direction.

[Boombang]

'siztenboots', on 02 Dec 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

would it be possible to toe a VX with an A frame custom made ?

Legally it is classed as a trailer with complication that as the vehicle being towed has wheels on the road, it must be road legal (roadworthy, MOT, tax etc).

As it is a trailer, if it is unbraked your limit is 750kg.

An A-frame can be used above 750kg unbraked for recovery from a hazardous situation, such as towing off a motorway. Once the car is safe (i.e. off the motorway) it cannot be towed further.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

And so the build begins. I have bagged a small cash sponsor and am only £2,500 away from the amount I need to compete for 2012 along side Joe. So I am going to start the race prep of my VX220. No going back now.

[CocoPops]

Good on you Mike. Good luck with it, I assume you and Joe will be in the same class? Can't wait to see the calendar of events, gonna have to get along to one this year.