36 replies to this topic

[Sammy]

Hello. I am contemplating a suspension refresh for my VX, including uprated suspension, which is where my issue is. I have a very rough understanding of suspension setups, probably all half truths and lots of misunderstandings. So I think I need to address these first. I am more interested in grip, handling and feedback than ride quality (I'd have bought a MX5/Boxster if that was the case) and enjoy an involving ride. Anyway, for the questions... The car was designed with a certain spring rate/ dampening and anti roll bar strength. If you change the springs/dampening, don't you also need to change both anti roll bars? Stronger springs all round would need a stronger ARB? The VX has rather soft suspension but has fairly heavy dampening. If I were to change to fairly stiff springs, than I'd need to have softer dampening. How does this affect the handling? Can the stiffer springs make the car skittish on the roads? - say 450/600lbs. Am I right in thinking helper springs are fully compressed and if a wheel wants to lift round a corner and have reached the end of the suspension travel, these then push the wheel back down. But otherwise do nothing? If doing a suspension refresh, what also should be replaced (i.e. what wears out) Bushes? Ball joints? ARB? Drop links? Toe links? HCB? From what I can see, wishbones are a point of a pointless expense? Thanks for your help.

[FLD]

I would suggest you have a read of such delights as 'how to make your car handle' and 'race car suspension' (might be competition car suspension). I'd also suggest you get all the suspension components replated to ensure longevity.

[JG]

It depends what you're doing it for? repair/track/road/the sake of it.

I did mine because wishbones were manky, and didn't befit the nice new Nitrons.

Then it becomes a 'while you're there' excercice which can become terrifically expensive.

In order of importance i would do the following (which do not require the suspension to be taken apart:

Toelink
HCB
ARB link (or droplink)

then you are going to take the suspension apart

Bushes
Ball Joints
Hub bolts
Suspension Bolts
Shimms
Hubs (if required - but you will, 'while you're there' )

If you're going to go to all that bother you might as well get the uprights, steering arms and wishbones blasted and coated. to look like this




You have lots of choices to make and everyone will have their opinon. None are wrong, since all are tried and tested.

Your first is probably what ethos you're going to adopt for the shocks. There are loads of threads on that on here and you may just need to take a view or go and try a few. You can't go far wrong with a set of fast road Nitron NTRs though for a meduim budget (circa £1250), go with a set of Nitron NSS or GAZ Golf if you want to go down. If you want to go higher, the CF kit is good with soft springs, harsh valving and rock hard ARBs or the Nitron 46s are your other option. All depends on application (see my first sentence).

Your second decision may lie with which toe-link kit to use. The choices are:

-Replace with new vxl part
-Elise shop uprated stainless kit
-Elise shop lightweight uprated kit (Spitfire kit)
-Elise parts kit
-There are a couple of other, in particular a nice lookng french kit and a Guglielmi one (never seen it)

I went with Elise shop's uprated one and have been very happy with it you can see it here:


Then you will need to decide what bushes to use.

-OEM
-Some form of Nylatron/powerflex/probush
-OEM copies

The advantage of the plastic inserted ones is that they don't require the suspension to be at ride height when the suspension bolts are torqued up. Some question of longevity and quality of those bushes, but lots have done plenty of miles and countless track days and been fine. expect a harsher ride, but may also report it to be more pleasant than std. I went for OEM.



If you can get your mind round that you're onto a good start.

[CocoPops]

What a great reply

[vocky]

I ended up buying a full set of brand new Lotus Europa wishbones and flogged the originals, works out slightly cheaper if you get a discount from the Lotus dealer

Edited by vocky, 30 November 2011 - 11:58 AM.

[techieboy]

But only any good if you're keeping the standard bushes. If you're planning on upgrading the bushes, you'll just be binning brand new OEM bushes.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

A helper spring is only there to keep the main spring located, it is not there to push a "light" wheel back on the ground, that is a different spring altogether.

[LazyDonkey]

I think the key is to establish what is wrong. As others have said shocks would be a good and cost effective upgrade (im running exige bilsteins), but after that it gets a lot more expensive.

[Mangham54]

I know your wishbones look good JG, but having toilet roll (which it looks like you have finished) and lube is a little distasteful. Though I do worry what the hole-punch is for.

[Sammy]

I was advised at my last service that my suspension is starting to get past its best, although it is still OK but I had been thinking about it before. I would like less body roll and dipping down when braking. I would be looking for a great handling fast road setup over comfort or track times. I think I'll have to come back to that epic reply when at home and not posting over remote desktop.

[tommobot]

Hoping to do this over the winter, but bit confused about whats what?

http://www.seriously...efresh-kit.html

It stating that this contains;

1x full set of Seriously Lotus wishbone bushes
8x Suspension Ball Joints
2x Track Rod Ends
2x Our own Antiroll bar drop links
1x Suspension bolt kit including damper bolts.

Does anyone happen to know if the seriously Lotus wishbone bushes as the same as OEM. I read somewhere that you had to fiddle around a bit more with some of the bushes? I would be looking for a OEM like for like replacement.

I think JG does a nice set of new bolts, and in regards to the toe link I would be happy with the standard OEM part again.

Would that little lot be sufficient?

[james.a]

Bumping this ageing thread as its on the to do list for the new year. I can't find a price for oem springs and dampers. Surely you should change these at the same time as replacing bushes etc. I found the seriously lotus kit and was a bit surprised that it didn't include springs and dampers

[JG]

Make sure you're sitting down when you ask vxl for the price of a new set of shocks.

[james.a]

Make sure you're sitting down when you ask vxl for the price of a new set of shocks.

That bad then is it? I don't want anything other than a standard OEM st up. I just can't really see the point of going to all the hassle of replacing the bushes and bolts etc without replacing the springs and dampers

[Sammy]

Bumping this ageing thread as its on the to do list for the new year. I can't find a price for oem springs and dampers. Surely you should change these at the same time as replacing bushes etc. I found the seriously lotus kit and was a bit surprised that it didn't include springs and dampers

Have you thought about putting Exige Bilsteins on instead?
http://www.elisepart...lstein-dampers/
http://www.elisepart...eibach-springs/

Plus a pair of lowering mounts for the front is required as they raise the height slightly.

[Goosenka]

Make sure you're sitting down when you ask vxl for the price of a new set of shocks.

That bad then is it? I don't want anything other than a standard OEM st up. I just can't really see the point of going to all the hassle of replacing the bushes and bolts etc without replacing the springs and dampers

Something crazy like 600 notes corner wasn't it?

[fezzasus]

I just can't really see the point of going to all the hassle of replacing the bushes and bolts etc without replacing the springs and dampers

It takes all of 10 minutes to change a damper, and doesn't interfere with the other parts which have been changed, so I can see why they'd keep the parts separate. Plus the market for replacement OEM dampers is very small.

[james.a]

Bumping this ageing thread as its on the to do list for the new year. I can't find a price for oem springs and dampers. Surely you should change these at the same time as replacing bushes etc. I found the seriously lotus kit and was a bit surprised that it didn't include springs and dampers

Have you thought about putting Exige Bilsteins on instead?
http://www.elisepart...lstein-dampers/
http://www.elisepart...eibach-springs/

Plus a pair of lowering mounts for the front is required as they raise the height slightly.

I've seen these but my thinking is that the guys in Norfolk know more about setting up a sports car for fast road use than I ever will. I've had cars in the past that I've upgraded the suspension on and they were never as usable after as he OEM setup. It's such a perfectly balanced car I don't want to risk this by fitting an after market suspension set up that isn't specifically designed to complement the chassis and original design.

OEM shocks and springs would do me just fine, I'm not a power seeking track day maestro so am happy with the standard feel.

[techieboy]

OEM shocks and springs would do me just fine, I'm not a power seeking track day maestro so am happy with the standard feel.

I'd give up drinking with Ken, if I were you. He's clearly having an adverse effect on you.

If you think that standard can't be improved on, take them off and send them to Bilstein and they will rebuild them for you at £100 a corner'ish. I'm sure they could also supply replacement springs or you could get similar from Faulkner Springs.

[james.a]

That may be the way to go then, getting them re furbed and stop drinking with ken!