4350 replies to this topic

[Mangham54]

Scuffers is trying to politely say *cough* turbo power

far from it....

I have compared Mikes Video with the data I have from Jamies car, and the last thing Mike needs is more power.

in straight lines, there is very little in it acceleration wise, the *HUGE* difference is corner speeds.

to put some numbers to this, turn 1, Mikes braking before the 300 board, and turns in at ~80Mph
I was braking after the 100 board, and turning in at ~95Mph (we both clock about the same speed over start/finish line)

by the time we get to the braking zone for turn 2, Mikes at ~107 vs. me at ~121

do this all round the lap, there's your 10 seconds.

So do you reckon that is down to brake components, traction of the wheels under braking or an imbalance in the car reducing the ability to dive on the brakes late?

[Scuffers]

So do you reckon that is down to brake components, traction of the wheels under braking or an imbalance in the car reducing the ability to dive on the brakes late?

Like I said, I have not driven or and any close look at the car, I am just going on video data and looking at it going round....

that said, if I was to attack the car, the complete suspension & brakes would be where I would start.

[MAXR]

Mike's times were fantastic on the 300. I've just had a look at my video footage from Friday 21st track day & I only managed around 209.2 on my best clear run. Our cars are pretty similar, with the exception of the Harrop +LSD, which clearly did make a little difference. However, its fair to say that Mike is just a bloody good fast driver...Simples! ...He definitely did have better traction out of corners & also better downforce through Corum. It would be great to see another VX next year. I'd opt for even bigger wheels & tyres, better aero, an LSD & stain resistant teflon pants!

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Scuffers, I am not confident enough to be braking at the 100 board. Now there are two factors to consider... A. Either I do not have the confidence in my own ability to do so or B. I don't have the confidence in the car. This is not a Mike bashing exercise and I am not taking it as such. We have got to a level, a good level I grant you and you can't be a dofus driver in an average car to achieve what we achieved this year but be under no illusions that there are improvements to be made in both car and driver. Now Scuffers coming on here and offering his thoughts prove that we have a serious package already and I am happy for it to sit here for discussion. Sounds like the first thing to do is get him in the car.

[VXT Tim]

Not related to the current discussion but does the vbox give an acceleration graph v time? I was wondering about the 60-100 time specifically.

[Scuffers]

Spot on, 100% agree with you, the very *last* thing I am doing is Mike bashing as you put it... What I am trying to get across is that despite the great season Mike has had, realistically, there's a lot more time in his car. Now, whilst I am sure Mikes driving could be improved, (and let's face it, we all could be better!) I would suggest that a bigger part of the problem is the car is not giving him the confidence to push it harder, looking at what his hands are doing, that's where my money would be. to put this in some context, if you gave it another 100HP, I would suggest that his lap times would not improve by more than 1-2 sec's if that. what I am getting at is he can't make best use of the power he has now, ie. looking though the video, his % time at full throttle is ~39% (by time), compared to 76% for Jamie's car.

Edited by Scuffers, 25 September 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[luke.]

Good point well presented Scuffers and i'm sure Mike is more than willing to take notes for anything. Can only get better surely And that is true about the time on full throttle. I know i may be a little biased but look at fitz in his m3 he posted some pretty fast times for his lack of power in the final. Still though mike i think you're a top driver and far better than me

Edited by luke., 25 September 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[GeorgeBC]

far better than me

Partly because you have forgotten what your car looks like never mind how to drive it

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Turn 1 is a corner we were working on specifically through the weekend. I think it's down to shocks (hears the whole forum groan in unison). When we compared Mikes braking and speed through turn 1 to mine last year, I was braking later and cornering a little quicker. This was on P Zero road tyres too.... Only real setup difference was I was on 46mm race spec Nitrons and Mike was on regular Gaz mono's. We experienced some issues with the Gaz over the weekend with them losing their clicks and self adjusting. This culminated in Mike spinning off in turn 1.... I'm not just saying this to fuel the age old debate but I've spent over double on my full suspension setup to Mikes so it's no surprise it gives more confidence.... As I said not having a dig just think that's an easy win to improve time. That said we need fresh input to get the VX's faster as other than shocks Mikes is the ultimate spec of any VX right now! Scuffers seems to have new ideas and I'm keen to hear them!!

[Scuffers]

Turn 1 is a corner we were working on specifically through the weekend.

I think it's down to shocks (hears the whole forum groan in unison).

I think that's in reality only part of the issue here, you have to consider that no single component part can work without the compatibility of all the other parts round it, and then the right setup to make them all work together.

[darronwall]

this all sound very expensive

[Darcini]

this all sound very expensive

It is

[rob999]

Scuffers, I'd like to see you take Mike's car out to see what you think of it and at the same time, see what you can do timewise.

[Scuffers]

this all sound very expensive

It is

actually, that kind of depends...

not suggesting this stuff is free, but it's not a question of if it costs more it must be better.

contrary to what you probably think, Jamie's car would not cost that much to replicate, the suspension package (ie, EVERYTHING from the chassis outwards bar the wheels) at retail is <£9K (+vat), and yes, I realise this is more than the cost of a cheap VX...

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I think this will be the stumbler.... You described Jamie's car to me Sunday as a cheap car that only cost £60k to build.... I nearly cacked myself at that!!! As mentioned in the PM any easy things to replicate are a bonus but other than that a bit of research into our existing issues should identify some easy opportunities to improve the car. As I said before I'm excited to see what you bring to the cars and am more than willing to help in any way

[SteveA]

Not bad in comparison to that box.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Mike's times were fantastic on the 300. I've just had a look at my video footage from Friday 21st track day &amp; I only managed around 209.2 on my best clear run. Our cars are pretty similar, with the exception of the Harrop +LSD, which clearly did make a little difference. However, its fair to say that Mike is just a bloody good fast driver...Simples!

...He definitely did have better traction out of corners &amp; also better downforce through Corum.

It would be great to see another VX next year. I'd opt for even bigger wheels &amp; tyres, better aero, an LSD &amp; stain resistant teflon pants!

Max it would be great to see YOU out there next season!!!! A single entry is cheap enough and if you test before hand (which you'll want to) then there's more than enough track time!!! Max you'd love it and you'd only have to find one weekend to fit it your schedule!!!!!

[Scuffers]

I think this will be the stumbler.... You described Jamie's car to me Sunday as a cheap car that only cost £60k to build.... I nearly cacked myself at that!!!

reality check...

just look at the cars in club-pro and pro extreme, just how much do you think they cost to put together? (and then consider they were all slower)

As mentioned in the PM any easy things to replicate are a bonus but other than that a bit of research into our existing issues should identify some easy opportunities to improve the car. As I said before I'm excited to see what you bring to the cars and am more than willing to help in any way

quite true, I am not suggesting that Mike has to go with the all or nothing approach, I am sure there are incremental gains to be had, the point I was making is that the very worse case to get to the (current) optimum setup is actually quite reasonable in the context.

now suggesting that £9K is peanuts, but just how much does it cost to get an engine to the spec of Mike's and which gives the greater laptime gain?

[luke.]

As said again with fitz bmw m3 it owes him about 16k including buying the car He just lacks power though

[Scuffers]

As said again with fitz bmw m3 it owes him about 16k including buying the car He just lacks power though

I did say in club-Pro or Pro-Extreme.....

you example just illustrates the point, look how far behind it is (some 6 sec's off Mike and 16 sec's of Jamie's car)