4350 replies to this topic

[Scuffers]

Dont forget we only started winning after the harrop so darren needs at least 330bhp and a lightweight car to match what mike did last season.

I would argue that point.

you don't NEED 330hp to match the pace, Jamie's car is only about the same power yet is 10+ sec's up the road.

basically, what I am saying is it's not about power... something most in TimeAttack seem to have missed.

[siztenboots]

exactly , while 330 bhp might sound a lot , 360 lb-ft is what I would expect Darron to have available on the exit of each corner and will shove him down the straight, ideally with flat shift

[Darcini]

I dont doubt darrens capabilities on the track but to just assume ronnie will be a walk over is very naive.

Agreed, he was anything but a walkover last year.

[Scuffers]

exactly , while 330 bhp might sound a lot , 360 lb-ft is what I would expect Darron to have available on the exit of each corner and will shove him down the straight, ideally with flat shift

not sure your getting this?

it's not about the engine, it's about going round corners.

[siztenboots]

mike on slicks then?

[chris_uk]

Scuffers, although i completely agree with you to a point mikes championship win would of been a second if we had not of upped the power by Putting that harrop on. I would say mike and jimmy both have a decent level of driver talent and darren is always up with them on the track days, so taking driver out of it it will come down to the car. Jimmys with 260bhp just won in 2011. For 2012 if mikes was left at 300 we would of lost, the bump to 333 won us the season. Each time we won we did it by a feas pube.. Ronnie is upping his game yet again so darren is going to either have to get more power or become the a driving god if he wants to take a win. I know reliability is a contributing factor to winning and loosing a season but you cant 'hope' for something to happen to a competitor, you have got to presume that the opponents car will be on top form each and every time it goes out on track and if you dont have a car which can beat a competitors when both are on top form then if you do win its by luck.

[Scuffers]

mike on slicks then?

No? what makes you think that?

Both Mike and Jamie's cars were on Kuhmo V70's last year.

Scuffers, although i completely agree with you to a point mikes championship win would of been a second if we had not of upped the power by Putting that harrop on.

I would say mike and jimmy both have a decent level of driver talent and darren is always up with them on the track days, so taking driver out of it it will come down to the car. Jimmys with 260bhp just won in 2011. For 2012 if mikes was left at 300 we would of lost, the bump to 333 won us the season. Each time we won we did it by a feas pube.. Ronnie is upping his game yet again so darren is going to either have to get more power or become the a driving god if he wants to take a win.

I know reliability is a contributing factor to winning and loosing a season but you cant 'hope' for something to happen to a competitor, you have got to presume that the opponents car will be on top form each and every time it goes out on track and if you dont have a car which can beat a competitors when both are on top form then if you do win its by luck.

kind of missing the point, what your describing is target fixation, and the one tool option.

Look, if you don't have to slow down for the corners, then you don't need the power to drag you back up to speed again.

you can't make up 10 sec's a lap (on the Snett 300) with power, no matter how much you have, yes, you can make a dent in it, only to a point, ie. from 200Hp to 300 would make a couple of sec's, the next 100Hp might get to 1 sec, the next, probably less than half a sec.

as I have said before, my time on WOT was ~80%, Mikes was nothing like that, no point in having mega power if your not using it for a large proportion of the lap.

[techieboy]

That was last year though Chris and the only performance boost available to Mike was in outright power. What Scuffers is saying is that by improving and optimising handling and grip and possibly Mike's confidence in what's really possible with the car, you can gain 5-10 seconds a lap with no increase in power. That's probably the equivalent of 250bhp in power terms but with none of the reliability issues nor the possible problems of deploying that power. Now those handling improvements plus a power boost would be something to see.

[techieboy]

Oh b0ll0cks, beaten to it.

[LY_Scott]

Chris is arguing against the people suggesting Darron will run away with it over Ronnie (who has improved his car again) as it was tight last year and Mike only just snipped it Handling and keeping speed up through corners > all out power and slowing down for corners is a given.

[chris_uk]

mike on slicks then?

No? what makes you think that?

Both Mike and Jamie's cars were on Kuhmo V70's last year.

Scuffers, although i completely agree with you to a point mikes championship win would of been a second if we had not of upped the power by Putting that harrop on.

I would say mike and jimmy both have a decent level of driver talent and darren is always up with them on the track days, so taking driver out of it it will come down to the car. Jimmys with 260bhp just won in 2011. For 2012 if mikes was left at 300 we would of lost, the bump to 333 won us the season. Each time we won we did it by a feas pube.. Ronnie is upping his game yet again so darren is going to either have to get more power or become the a driving god if he wants to take a win.

I know reliability is a contributing factor to winning and loosing a season but you cant 'hope' for something to happen to a competitor, you have got to presume that the opponents car will be on top form each and every time it goes out on track and if you dont have a car which can beat a competitors when both are on top form then if you do win its by luck.

kind of missing the point, what your describing is target fixation, and the one tool option.

Look, if you don't have to slow down for the corners, then you don't need the power to drag you back up to speed again.

you can't make up 10 sec's a lap (on the Snett 300) with power, no matter how much you have, yes, you can make a dent in it, only to a point, ie. from 200Hp to 300 would make a couple of sec's, the next 100Hp might get to 1 sec, the next, probably less than half a sec.

as I have said before, my time on WOT was ~80%, Mikes was nothing like that, no point in having mega power if your not using it for a large proportion of the lap.

I think your missing the point (in the politest way), im not talking about the best way to get a car around a circuit as fast as possible, im not talking about time on WOT, im not disagreeing with you about the points you make.. Im not talking about mikes or his car.. im talking about darren and his car vs ronnie and his car and the comment that because ronnies car isnt a vx he doesnt pose a threat.

You mention target fixation.. Is it wrong then to target a win? Because i dont know about you but if im competing i want to win. I dont want to come 2nd.

Edited by chris_uk, 16 January 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Scuffers]

You mention target fixation.. Is it wrong then to target a win? Because i dont know about you but if im competing i want to win. I dont want to come 2nd.

in this context, target fixation is:

"+100hp is what I need to win"

as opposed to taking a step back and looking at the whole picture.....

And yes, I like to think I can win, but being realistic, I don't start every race knowing that it's a certainty, or indeed, at all possible...

[chris_uk]

Remember that darrens car (as far as we can tell) is going to be similar to that of mikes last year, so mikes car would be a benchmark for him. I believe he is using the same shocks as mike did last year aswell. If darren creates a car the same as mikes 'was' (power/weight/aero) and ronnie has upped his game even more then he is going to struggle beating Ronnie for the win. The easiest way to get a faster lap timein this case is to increase power (imo) so as i said before, unless he has turned into a racing driver whos knows everything power is the next step.

[The Batman]

Power can equal trouble though Chris too much power and a dabble of rain equals a near miss/confidence shock or a crash Think daron should buy some proper shocks as Cliffies wouldn't click and where click diagnostic at most rounds

[siztenboots]

can we please stop using bhp / power when comparing bhp to Ronnie or Mike, as its torque thats important. anyway I don't want to mess up Mike's thread getting all religious about turbo vs sc , or whatever , lets have another thread about TA laptime performance

[Scuffers]

can we please stop using bhp / power when comparing bhp to Ronnie or Mike, as its torque thats important.

really?

your just not getting this are you?

adding power/torque is not the answer, unless your WOT time is greater than ~70+% of the lap, then your not using what power you have.

[vocky]

your just not getting this are you?

some of us do

[siztenboots]

can we please stop using bhp / power when comparing bhp to Ronnie or Mike, as its torque thats important.

really?

your just not getting this are you?

adding power/torque is not the answer, unless your WOT time is greater than ~70+% of the lap, then your not using what power you have.

I don't agree with you

apologies to Mike and everyone else

Edited by TangoAlpha, 16 January 2013 - 02:17 PM.
Mind your language

[The Batman]

[GeorgeBC]

Darron will be on the nitron 46 race spec shocks this year. Why does everyone think that Ronnie is our only competitor? Who knows who else will enter and what they will bring performance wise. Theres no point having loads of power making the car undriveable and unreliable. It will be totally different from last year as the car is different. Mike was strong in the wet as Ronnie had all that torque to cope with, Darron is going to have the same problem. We are going to try and win but who knows what the season will bring. We will have a right laugh doing it and im looking forward to seeing Darron try and race with a hangover each weekend . Cant wait to see how we get on and i just hope that we are closely matched with our nearest competitor so we can take points of each other each round and build up a bit of tension. Reliability, keeping the car and driver in one piece and the weather are all big factors in scoring points. Bring it on! Good luck in pro Mike