4350 replies to this topic

[The Batman]

If the same driver was to test a number of cars all standard apart from 1 different thing changed on each i believe the better tyres mod would be fastest.

to a point, maybe, there are limits though

bolt a set of slicks to a std VX and see what happens, you might be surprised....

Will the flux capacitor implode causing a rip in the space time continuum unless off course it happened to occur at 88mph?

[Scuffers]

Will the flux capacitor implode causing a rip in the space time continuum unless off course it happened to occur at 88mph?

OK, if you have really soft tyres with a shitload of grip, the std VX stands no hope of keeping them pointing in the right direction under load, to the point that they start to fight each other, thus wasting grip and adding friction to the point you may well end up going slower round corners

[The Batman]

I know bud was merely trying to add some more humour to the willy wave'o'thon

[chris_uk]

What you mean to a point?? Slicks are not legal on the road.. So obviously i was talking r888's or similar. What in your opinion would be the best single mod someone could do to there vx (not including driver training)

[Scuffers]

What you mean to a point?? Slicks are not legal on the road.. So obviously i was talking r888's or similar.

What in your opinion would be the best single mod someone could do to there vx (not including driver training)

hard to pick on a single thing, but at a push, I would suggest springs/dampers first, you might just be surprised how much you can get out of 'std' road tyres if you can control them better.

[NickB787]

Come on guys, Isn't this Mikes' thread, want to start another on mods and driving technique that way when people want to read about time attack and what is Mike doing they READ about time attack and what is Mike doing.... PS I am really interested in how to make this thing go faster on track myself especially if I do OHW which I would like to do this year so don't flame me, just want the info in the correct place.

Edited by NickB777, 16 January 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I like this debate on here as it is relevant and keeps things in one place. Jamie, confirmed Club Pro We will be up against: Bo Neilsen Astra Romain Levesque CRX Gordon Wright Skyline (RWD) Charlie Butler Henderson S2000 Richard Marshall Milltek Golf This is all so far. Right, what Scuffers is saying is this. I can find so much more speed by having my car eqipeed and set up to brake better, faster and more stable and then corner faster. Jamie's car was so much later on the brakes and so much much faster round the corners and then so much quicker up the straights than me with no more real power. So; what we need to do is set my car up properly with decent kit then teach me to have confidence in the new set up. Dazza will be quick for sure but I know Ronnie is upping his game even more and has a bespoke set of dampers made and will now run decent spring rates; he is also on a car diet and will have a new hybrid turbo. In the dry, he is mustard so should not be underestimated.

[techieboy]

We will be up against:
Bo Neilsen Astra
Romain Levesque CRX
Gordon Wright Skyline (RWD)
Charlie Butler Henderson S2000
Richard Marshall Milltek Golf

This is all so far.

That's much better than I thought. For some reason I thought there were a lot more cars in this class. Fingers crossed it's only one or two more by season green light.

Will be interesting to see what Marshall can do without that banzai GT-R, this year.

[JohnTurbo]

That GTR was...er Hax0r.

[NickB787]

sorry Mike didn't want to stamp on your thread. So how could you upgrade the ap 4 pots? I assume your 308 disks, could/would go 6pot? any advantage? maybe some work on the rears and brake bios. be interesting to see how the different dampers effect the running. Stability I assume would be roll/brace bar setup

[rob999]

Has Jamie already posted up a spec on his Loti on here? If not, could you give us an idea?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

sorry Mike didn't want to stamp on your thread.

So how could you upgrade the ap 4 pots? I assume your 308 disks, could/would go 6pot? any advantage? maybe some work on the rears and brake bios.

be interesting to see how the different dampers effect the running.
Stability I assume would be roll/brace bar setup

Stability is through the car being set up correctly and not at all skittish under braking. I wasn't referring to the stiffness of the chassis.

The trick with the brakes is to get balance front and rear and it is not just a case of how many "pots" there are, it is more about the size of those pots.

[Nev]

The trick with the brakes is to get balance front and rear and it is not just a case of how many "pots" there are, it is more about the size of those pots.

Indeed, and also the ratio of master cylinder size to the sum circumferance of the all the caliper cylinders. It won't matter one jot if you even have 10 pot brake calipers if you don't also change the master cylinder ratio, as the amount of force transmitted by the brakes lines/fluid is dictated by this single item.

[NickB787]

Off the wall question here Since you are using these new hubs, and lowering the suspension. Your car now being a track car is it of any benefit to actually see if you can lower the whole engine by a few cm (lower the CG even more) would the drive shafts allow that. what ever you do sounds like ££££ though

[Steffen]

Jamie's car was so much later on the brakes ....

Hope you are not wondering about that!

[cnrandall]

The performance envelope of a car is defined by several key attributes. In no particular order: Weight Power Tyres Aero CofG Track width Change any of the above and it will have a very real effect on the performance the chassis CAPABLE of achieving. You are then into optimisation, which is where suspension geometry, brake balance, damper setup etc come into play. You can have a chassis with the fundamentally amazing set of stats than can be destroyed by basic setup errors, like a brake balance that causes lock-up, silly bump steer characteristics, the wrong spring rates, the list goes on. What the Scuff is trying to do with Mike's car is get those basic setup parameters into line so that the chassis can be exploited to its full potential. In my experience of motorsport at the this level most people get the basics wrong and until you get them right its futile to chuck money at more power, more aero etc etc as you are unlikely to get the most out of the spend. There is a vast chasm of performance difference between Jamie's car and Mike's and I have no doubt that the Scuff is correct in saying that the Lion's share of that difference is down to basic setup and driver training so that's where they are looking first. Once that gap has been brought down then I'm sure they will try to grow the performance envelope of the car and there will be sizable gains. For example the wing on Jamie's car I imagine will make something in the order of 1500N of downforce@ 100mph which absolutely will make a real difference to the performance of the car although, again, only if its setup correctly and balanced well.

[siztenboots]

amazing to think an f1 car generates 10 times more df , approx 1600kg (~16,000N) at 160mph

[cnrandall]

amazing to think an f1 car generates 10 times more df , approx 1600kg (~16,000N) at 160mph

Remember the downforce raises with the square of the speed, so that's not apples and apples. We have a Group-C car here that does 42000N @ 200mph and that was designed back in the late 1980's... Just goes to show what a big plan area does for. Actually, the most interesting Aero developments that have gone into modern race cars revolve around getting the car to work properly in pitch and yaw, so really back to optimisation as opposed to outright numbers again.

[siztenboots]

and the costs to go that fast are cubic!

[cnrandall]

LOL, very true!!