4350 replies to this topic

[chris_uk]

i see.. so in a sense you will be wearing them more at the cost of better usage from the tyres overall.. ie, with the added downforce you have you can utilise the tyres that bit more in the corners or under acceleration so that directly relates to an increase of tyre wear..

[jamiewillson]

LOL regarding the wing comments. This picture makes it look far bigger than it really is and it won't give as much downforce as you probably think. It's just to sort the front-to-rear balance if we crank the rear wing up. It might not even work, but we'll find out soon enough at Mira. It'll get people talking, that's for sure!!!!!

Only just got the rear wing today Jamie, one at a time please.

I realise you are now Jamie Two Wings but I still have more likes than you on FB!

Yes Mike, I noticed!!!! You're doing well there. Got to ask though, how the f**k did you manage that. Anyway, we're meant to be working as a team, so can you promote the EP page too please Chop chop.

Glad you got the wing. Send me a pic if you can be arsed. I just want to see what the weave is like.

[Scuffers]

i see..

so in a sense you will be wearing them more at the cost of better usage from the tyres overall.. ie, with the added downforce you have you can utilise the tyres that bit more in the corners or under acceleration so that directly relates to an increase of tyre wear..

No.

[Scuffers]

i see..

so in a sense you will be wearing them more at the cost of better usage from the tyres overall.. ie, with the added downforce you have you can utilise the tyres that bit more in the corners or under acceleration so that directly relates to an increase of tyre wear..

No.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

LOL regarding the wing comments. This picture makes it look far bigger than it really is and it won't give as much downforce as you probably think. It's just to sort the front-to-rear balance if we crank the rear wing up. It might not even work, but we'll find out soon enough at Mira. It'll get people talking, that's for sure!!!!!

Only just got the rear wing today Jamie, one at a time please.

I realise you are now Jamie Two Wings but I still have more likes than you on FB!

Yes Mike, I noticed!!!! You're doing well there. Got to ask though, how the f**k did you manage that. Anyway, we're meant to be working as a team, so can you promote the EP page too please Chop chop.

Glad you got the wing. Send me a pic if you can be arsed. I just want to see what the weave is like.

Won't see the wing till next week when I am back up there.

As for FB, it is a well planned marketing strategy that set me in good stead. Let me know if you ever need a marketing consultant. As for plugging the EP page, I have loads of my friends liking your page now so I am doing my bit.

[chris_uk]

i see..

so in a sense you will be wearing them more at the cost of better usage from the tyres overall.. ie, with the added downforce you have you can utilise the tyres that bit more in the corners or under acceleration so that directly relates to an increase of tyre wear..

No.

what you mean NO... the more you utilse a tyre the more it will wear.. the faster you go, the harder you corner the more it will wear.. if adding downforce allows you to corner faster (which it does) how does it not wear your tyre more?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

i see..

so in a sense you will be wearing them more at the cost of better usage from the tyres overall.. ie, with the added downforce you have you can utilise the tyres that bit more in the corners or under acceleration so that directly relates to an increase of tyre wear..

No.

what you mean NO... the more you utilse a tyre the more it will wear.. the faster you go, the harder you corner the more it will wear.. if adding downforce allows you to corner faster (which it does) how does it not wear your tyre more?

If by adding front downforce you get the front to turn in better with reduced scrub, the tyre will last longer as the scrub of understeer will wear a tyre much quicker than the usage of a controlled turn in.

[Scuffers]

Why does this have to be so hard work? More downforce = less tyre scrub = tyres run cooler = less wear. Speed has chuff all to do with it.

[chris_uk]

[chris_uk]

im genuinely trying to understand this.. we know that a tyre works best with a small percentage slip (4-6% slip / optimum slip angle), so as the tyre is slipping very fractionally wear and abrasion happens, if you add a downwards force to the tyre whilst its in its slip angle the greater the effects of wear and abrasion. (im picturing a rubber, i move it across the table to simulate the slip angle the more downwards force i apply the more grip i get but the more rubber bits come off (wear)). as far as i can see your assuming that the car prior to the extra downforce (jamies car) was getting more slip than necessary (outside the slip angle causing understeer) so by adding the extra downforce you can reduce the understeer, reduce the tyre scrub/slip and therfore reduce the rate at which the tyres wear out.

[Scuffers]

Hardly an assumption, managed to wipe out a set of front tyres run in ~30 laps. I do know what understeer is you know. As for you assumption on slip angle, 4-6% is massive, think more like <1%. Lastly, if you put 500kgs downforce on your rubber, just how much effort us it going to take to make it slip?

[chris_uk]

Hardly an assumption, managed to wipe out a set of front tyres run in ~30 laps.

so you put front downforce on jamies car to reduce/solve the understeer you were suffering but that doesnt mean that adding downforce doesnt increase tyre wear generally.

I do know what understeer is you know.

i never said you didnt.

As for you assumption on slip angle, 4-6% is massive, think more like <1%.

that depends on the tyre doesnt it? compound, sizes and not only that but the amount of lateral force being applied to the tyre?

Lastly, if you put 500kgs downforce on your rubber, just how much effort us it going to take to make it slip?

its going to mean you have to be putting more lateral force on the tyre before it slips, so ultimately you will be cornering faster/harder basically getting them G's higher.

Edited by chris_uk, 26 February 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[The Batman]

:popcorn eating smiley:

[Scuffers]

What's the point? He's clearly not listening....

[Scuffers]

and this is a man that does not understand the difference between mass and (down)force.

[darronwall]

stand up that boy that coughed!!!!

[Mike (Cliffie)]

and this is a man that does not understand the difference between mass and (down)force.

Simon, this is my chief mechanic so you guys better start playing nicely.

Chris, remember Anglesey where we killed a set of soft fronts in a single session? That was due mainly to understeer and the turn angle of the car being less than the turn angle of the front tyres. I literally tore the tread off those Kumhos.

[MAXR]

Mr Scoffer, Why do you have to reply to comments in such an arrogant, rude manner? You may well be more talented behind the wheel of your car than most on this forum & even more knowledgable & experienced on setting up cars. But, there is NO need to talk down to people no matter how silly comments may seem to you. Max

[GeorgeBC]

and this is a man that does not understand the difference between mass and (down)force.

Simon, this is my chief mechanic so you guys better start playing nicely.

Chris, remember Anglesey where we killed a set of soft fronts in a single session? That was due mainly to understeer and the turn angle of the car being less than the turn angle of the front tyres. I literally tore the tread off those Kumhos.

Jamies car killed its front tyres that day as well. So did lots of other cars as well.

[Darcini]

Mike, this guy's attitude is in danger of alienating not only the members of your team but a lot of the .org support. We all know how knowledgable he is and valuable to your cause but ffs so are other people. There really is no need to be so rude.