2141 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

Bitcoin

Good luck with that. Even our resident Bitfanatic seems to have shut up about it now, given all of the issues it has.

[KurtVerbose]

Sorry but saying

 

"You're wrong"

 

Isn't a counter argument.

 

I don't mean to be patronising, but for me its borderline arguing with a religious convert. I'll answer with some basic facts.

 

You can't have a currency union without a fiscal union, and you can't have a fiscal union without a political union, and you can't have a political union without both sides agreeing.

 

Why on earth would the rest of the UK enter into a currency union with you? We just wouldn't allow it, because it's not in our interest. You won't be allowed to use the pound. It's a complete non-starter.  

[LY_Scott]

was in jest

 

Quite enjoyed the daily updates. ...still waiting for that 7 crash cycle...

[techieboy]

I was about at the point of shooting myself in the head with all the doom and gloom and fact I'd got a worthless plot of land with an even more worthless pile of bricks on top of it.

[siztenboots]

have they gone yet?

[KurtVerbose]

By the way, I'm visiting Scotland in April for a holiday - can't wait, great country!

 

Just hope I don't have immigration problems at the border.

[LY_Scott]

 

Sorry but saying

 

"You're wrong"

 

Isn't a counter argument.

 

I don't mean to be patronising, but for me its borderline arguing with a religious convert. I'll answer with some basic facts.

 

You can't have a currency union without a fiscal union, and you can't have a fiscal union without a political union, and you can't have a political union without both sides agreeing.

 

Why on earth would the rest of the UK enter into a currency union with you? We just wouldn't allow it, because it's not in our interest. You won't be allowed to use the pound. It's a complete non-starter.  

 

 

The issue isn't using the pound although it's headline reported that way.

 

No-one needs anyone's permission to use the pound. The same way Bermuda uses the American dollar and similar to how IOM uses the pound at present. This has been reiterated by the Adam Smith institute yesterday.

 

The agreement is needed to have Bank Of England as bank of last resort. The BofE have said they will do whatever is agreed. This is needed to give us credit rating and decent interest rates.

 

There's no real reason not to do this given how closely aligned the economies are in terms of debt. There is also risk to the rUK in terms of their credit rating in losing net exporter Scotland.  

[LY_Scott]

By the way, I'm visiting Scotland in April for a holiday - can't wait, great country!

 

Just hope I don't have immigration problems at the border.

 

 

If you're in the central belt (Edinburgh/Glasgow/Stirling etc areas) let us know. We're always up for a beer

[techieboy]

By the way, I'm visiting Scotland in April for a holiday - can't wait, great country!   Just hope I don't have immigration problems at the border.

    If you're in the central belt (Edinburgh/Glasgow/Stirling etc areas) let us know. We're always up for a flogging a heretic

[LY_Scott]

I was about at the point of shooting myself in the head with all the doom and gloom and fact I'd got a worthless plot of land with an even more worthless pile of bricks on top of it.

 

[Rosssco]

 

It's been proven multiple times it doesn't work well for either party, but the Nationalist's refuse to remove their head from the sand and acknowledge this

 

I take it you mean the eurozone Ross?

 

The concept of currency unions works quite well. Makes trading across borders quite easy too. The problem is that Greece, Spain and Italy never even got close to aligning in terms of debt and even lied about how far away they were. The eurozone didnt fail because it had a currency union...In a way its actually surviving because it did. They got a big wakeup call.

 

Scotland and the rUK start from a point where they are totally aligned. We're never going to become Greece and we're not about to start setting fire to money. We actually have the healthier economy from a balance of payments perspective. The idea that finanacial policy will be dictated from Westminster is patronising at best. It's in an assumption that we will rack up massive debts and create an unstable economy. Westminster are totally without fault of ever doing themselves as well huh? Best they law down the rules for us eh? If we had a massive spending government who were racking up debts we'd be calling the out as well. It's just spin.

 

Scotland's economy is fine and a currency union is the sensible approach in everyone's interest.

 

 

 

SOME continue to believe that the Euro Area has shown that monetary union does not work. Mr Carney reminded us of the advantages of such a union, reducing transaction costs and exchange-rate risk, encouraging trade, competition and economic efficiency. Surely it is better for the English to be able to use their money in Scotland without paying to change it? That is not a trivial benefit. Nor is the absence of exchange risk, which otherwise has to be added to investment risk.

 

 

I agree the concept of currency unions works quite well, otherwise a bunch of European countries wouldn't have signed up to one, although in the case of Europe they didn't go for political union which is where ther issues arose. Alternatively, what Europe are moving towards, and what the UK and the US currently have is this political union and their own currency.

 

I would not compare Scotland to Greece, but is perhaps more comparable to Ireland who got stung due to its level of indebtedness (which was comparable to the UK's I believe before the 2008 crash), large economic weight of its banks which it was required to part-support when some of them went south, and their tie to the Euro, which meant they had no currency flexiblity. An independant Scotland would similarly have a large banking sector (which isn't currently in the rudest of health), and a potentially large part being oil-based which is of benefit, but fluctuates within a short space of time, therefore tax receipts cannot be spent automatically (some have to be reserved just in case).

 

From a rUK perspective, I can totally understand why they would not want to share a currency. The two economies may be aligned currently (partly because we part of a political union) but they will likely diverge into the oil-based economy and a primarily service-based economy. This would mean that Scotland could not adjust intrest rate or money supply to suit our economy. We'd also be more reliant on oil tax income which I feel will make us far less likey to provide rate reductions to help stimulate industry when there is a slow down in production for example. Something we can afford to do in the UK.

 

So I completely disagree with your assertion that a currency union (without a political union) is in everyones best interests. It is in the interest of the SNP and the yes campaign as although it's actually the poorest long-term option for Scotland and the rUK, it's the least scary one to sell to potential voters in the short-term. That's the only real reason its on the table.

[LY_Scott]

It might be time for the pub, I agree(mostly) with Ross.

[G-Bob]

Why don't we just have Scottish Pounds like we currently do?  It's like a foreign currency when you go down south anyway and I've even seen a Bereu abroad offering a different rate (worse) to english pounds to change it into euros.

 

 

[KurtVerbose]

No-one needs anyone's permission to use the pound. The same way Bermuda uses the American dollar and similar to how IOM uses the pound at present. This has been reiterated by the Adam Smith institute yesterday.

 

The agreement is needed to have Bank Of England as bank of last resort. The BofE have said they will do whatever is agreed. This is needed to give us credit rating and decent interest rates.

 

You can't compare Bermuda (<70k people) with Scotland. There's no way the British government would agree to let the BoE be a lender of last resort - why would they, apart from to make sure you keep paying your share of the national debt?

 

Regardless of what happens, pound, euro, Scottish pound your cost of capital is going to be substantially higher.

 

Anyway - speaking as an English person who doesn't currently live in the UK, I would mildly prefer you to remain in the UK. On the political side I think it's great you have more say in what you want to do. On the economic/financial side I think it's frankly scary for you. It will cost you loads adjusting and you'll be poorer for it. It's also a one way process. No way would the rest of the UK welcome you back should you want in again.

[ghand]

have they gone yet?

[Rosssco]

Uk Treasury dude opinion:

 

1. Uncertainty - The Scottish Government is leaving the option open of moving to a different currency later - "Imagine what would have happened to Greece two years ago if they had said they were contemplating reverting to the Drachma".

2. Banking risk - Scotland's banking sector is far too big in relation to its national income - "very real risk that the continuing UK would end up bearing most of the... liquidity and solvency risk".

3. Lack of balance or "asymmetry" - The continuing UK would be at risk of bailing out Scottish banks and debt BUT Scotland could never bail out an economy nearly ten times its size.

4. "Misaligned" tax and spending policies - Recent spending and tax commitments by the Scottish Government suggest no "strong commitment to a rigorous fiscal policy" and "persistently optimistic projections of North Sea revenues" are "at odds not just with the Treasury but with the Office of Budget Responsibility".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-26162292

[ghand]

By the way, I'm visiting Scotland in April for a holiday - can't wait, great country!   Just hope I don't have immigration problems at the border.

I started this with two simple questions, still no answers yet. Will have to wait for the vote Staying for the Hoon?

[KurtVerbose]

I'll be just a bit late for the hoon - I'd also be in the wrong car!

 

I wonder if we could merge the 'Scotland Independence' thread with the 'do you believe in a god' thread as they both seem to be going on for ages with no conclusion. How about 'Do you believe in an independent Scottish God?' thread?

[ghand]

Why don't we just have Scottish Pounds like we currently do?  It's like a foreign currency when you go down south anyway and I've even seen a Bereu abroad offering a different rate (worse) to english pounds to change it into euros.    

I still have a Scottish fiver from the last Hoon I am hoping to get rid of on this Hoon

[Seb.F]

 

Bitcoin

Good luck with that. Even our resident Bitfanatic seems to have shut up about it now, given all of the issues it has.

 

 

You laugh but it's an incredibly lucrative business to be in right now. Cryptocurrency that is, not specifically bitcoin.