2141 replies to this topic

[G-Bob]

Is there a "none of the above" option?

Edited by G-Bob, 03 July 2014 - 11:23 AM.

[LY_Scott]

Nope. There was a devo max option which Cameron insisted was removed. Now they're a little scared that its not going to be a whitewash and god forbid they might even lose. They're offering up some offer of control over banana taxes and Milliband's has jumped on the social democracy band wagon as that's the direction of the yes campaign. We've not failed to notice he's committed to the same spending and cuts plan as the Tories at the same time though. Oops Ed. Next! Osbourne's chat last week about creating power houses in the north and chat about getting HS3 up into northern England faster too is a direct result of the pressure they're under on this. So to the Northern Englanders. You're welcome Get yourself along to at least one public meeting Bob. Hear the arguments being made.

[Rosssco]

Aye, go along for a look / listen Bob. Come back tell us what you think.

 

If it goes a bit like this, you're probably in the right place..

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=9foi342LXQE

Edited by Rosssco, 03 July 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[LY_Scott]

Ross showing he's never been to one and is just gobbling up what the beeb presents. #standard

Edited by LY_Scott, 03 July 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[LY_Scott]

Worrying that anyone who seems to relish the debate would like to stifle it? Maybe Ross has noted nearly all public meetings end in a growth for the yes side?

[Rosssco]

You're absolutely right, I've never been to one (there isn't much up here). Besides, I can make up my own mind, and don't need the moral support of others to justify it, and I feel it's unlikely that any new information / arguments will be presented to me..

 

For a potential undecided / convert like Bob, it may be useful however..

[LY_Scott]

Its not about moral support Ross. Everyone has to make up their own mind. Getting questions answered is the point of the public debates. People who can present the case properly and be debated with. Its the main gripe with David Cameron. He's off spouting today again but has never faced questions or debate on any of what he says. Neither has Osbourne. I'll applaud Carmichael for at least attending debates and making a case.

[slindborg]

Will there be lots of tension no matter which way it falls?

Will there be a civil war in October?

 

Ohh HS3, win although sadly itsll be in the North, in which case I wont bother as its grim there.

[Rosssco]

But for me it would not be a "public" debate, and whilst I'm sure it's not full of yes campaigners, I feel it's a fairly safe assumption that the majority at these events will be pro-indy. Again for me, I don't really think I have any questions (well, I do, but they are purely practical, and have been continually dodged by the SNP)

 

I've had many a good (but often divisive) debate with a good friend of mine, but neither of us come out thinking / feeling much different..

 

As for the ever-recurring issue of Cameron / Osborne debates - it's ironic that you state this, but a couple lines above talk about being presented with the case properly. EVERYBODY knows the primary reason Salmong or the SNP whant that debate is to stoke the anit-English, Tory-toff sentiment that bubbles under the surface of virtually everything the SNP / nationalists come out with... You, me, the SNP, BT are all perfectly aware of this. It would add absolutely nothing constructive to the debate.

[Rosssco]

Will there be lots of tension no matter which way it falls?

Will there be a civil war in October?

 

Ohh HS3, win although sadly itsll be in the North, in which case I wont bother as its grim there.

 

Votes in September, why wait 2 weeks to let the war commence!

 

It'll be like Eastern Ukraine, but with LOTS more cheap alcohol...

[LY_Scott]

I would totally disagree Ross. Independence for me isn't about identity. It isn't anti-english. It may be anti-westminster. The issue with Cameron is that he insists on mouthing off on the issue but never faces any questions? I would agree a tory eton boy is off to a loser before he begins. He's welcome to pipe down also though? Put up or shut up. If the strength of his arguments was enough he couldn't lose. Stu, There will be idiots but in the whole it will be ok. There's a Church of Scotland reconciliation service the Sunday following with all parties attending.

[slindborg]

So England gets a large influx of people who Voted NO but Yes won... OR the border gets moved and No gets some land like Israel?

 

 

[Rosssco]

You may not feel that way Scott, but there is a significant proportion that will feel that way, and if they don't Salmond will actively go out of his to make a point of this in any debate. Its no coincidence that the BT campaign doesn't have any significant Conservative in the front ranks, even though I personally feel there's a few ole' Torys that would rip Salmond a new one in a real debate.. and I'm not even a Tory supporter BTW..

 

If there was no history of Tory-bashing within the nationalist camp, maybe there could be a debate, but the fact is its pushed in our face constantly. Alternatively, if it was a labour PM, I'm not sure sure big Eck would be quite so keen to jump up and down for a debate...

[Rosssco]

In other news, should I buy some of these just in case..?

 

http://www.theguardi...bitcoin-testbed

[LY_Scott]

Aye Alex is really nice to Johann Lamont and Ed Milliband right enough. Tory policies are the issue. You think Alec would shy away from a debate with Ed Picture it for a moment. You say a significant proportion but I just don't see it in the debates Ross. The discussion is always about building something better. Moving left of centre from the right of Tory and current Labour. Its never fcuk it. We'll go independent and stick it to them sassanachs. No matter what it means. You'll find the no camp rolling out the face paint and Mel Gibson banter more than any Yes man. There will always be idiots but then the orange order are backing no because they think Alec is bribing Catholics to votes yes.... To call it a significant proportion is inaccurate. Empty vessels and all that. The debate has become almost entirely about social justice from the Yes side and the chance to do something different.

[Rosssco]

"No more governments we didn't vote for..."

 

What does this line exactly mean then? No more Labour governments we didn't vote for? Nope. No more Tory governments we didn't vote.. (i.e. democracy..). Do you think this line would be pushed as much of there was a Labour government? Of course it wouldn't...

 

I'm confused. You say it's not about being anti-tory, but then you say its about move further left of centre (which really doesn't appeal to me personally). This stuff comes straight form the top, from the SNP themselves.. Please show me where the No camp (outwith rnadom internet users) have rolled out the over-done nationalist stuff that you claim?

 

I have no idea, nor do I care what the orange order do. They are just another bunch of pseudo-religeous flag-wavers to me..

 

Confused vessel n' all that...

[LY_Scott]

I never said it wasn't anti-tory. But you've missed the point where Labour and tory become one and the same thing. You've also equated anti-tory with anti-english. Its not that. Have you pictured the Ed Milliband and Alec debate yet? Do you think Alec wouldn't be up for that given the policies the Labour party have now?

 

It's about policies not identity. Unfortunately the Tories are making these policies, Scotland didn't vote for them and we're suffering. What could be clearer? We would no longer governments we didn't vote for. The current policies being inacted upon us were not the plan of Labour in 2010 which is who Scotland voted for.

 

SNP won a majority in the last Scottish election because they became more Labour than Labour. They moved to the left and won. No tuition fees, no bridge tolls, prescription charges, care for the elderly, anti-trident. This is tradtional labour stuff.

 

 

[LY_Scott]

A talk about the NHS. What is going wrong and what we could do differently. This is where the debate is.

[KurtVerbose]

Sorry Scott, but the last labour government spent way less than the SNP is now promising to spend, and that didn't go well. It was completely unsustainable.

 

No way would an independent Scotland have better access to credit than the UK - and you'll need credit to spend like that because there's no way you'll raise it in tax.

[LY_Scott]

And you've come to that conclusion how?