2141 replies to this topic

[Craig S]

I was just trying to point out i'm not a keyboard warrior - clearly anyone talking about politics knitwear on a night out deserves a slap

[LazyDonkey]

Sssshhhh he'll read this. He loves that jumper

[techieboy]

I see it that all arguments are showing us that we won't be worse off, but where are the arguments telling us what will be better?

I struggle to see how any one can come up with a real answer to that equation until the actual mechanism of "independence" is agreed and how responsibilities (read liabilities in reality) for institutions/infrastructure/national debt/pensions/whatever are apportioned between UK plc and Scotland plc. One thing's for sure, there's no way you're going to start with a nil balance sheet or only figures in the credit column.

The one definite benefit is that Scotland will have a right to 100% self determination if you vote for full independence.

But it would seem there's a real risk that you then cede a good proportion of those newly found benefits (if there are any) elsewhere by rushing headlong into EU membership. As I understood the new super-EU, for a new country to actually get membership you now need to sign up to all of the various economic/legal/immigration/human rights agreements and commit to taking the Euro as your currency. The UK will still retain it's, much despised in Brussels, vetoes, opt-outs and rebate but I can't see the Eurocrats granting those to the "new" country of Scotland. Fine, maybe the hatred of London is enough to mean that's a step worth taking but it seems like you're jumping out of a frying pan of 65 million people where you more than punch your weight (which is how it feels to a put upon Englander like me) into a homogeneous fire of 300 million people where your collective voice may be smaller still. And whatever Salmond says or doesn't say, that question hasn't been answered in any binding and detailed way by any EU power that be, in an official capacity.

Dunno. As ever, I'll watch things with interest but with the hope that you don't up and leave. I'll still wish you well if you do go though.

[LY_Scott]

I was just trying to point out i'm not a keyboard warrior - clearly anyone talking about politics on a night out deserves a slap

Agreed, lets keep it plastic cars and hot young brunette barmaids ....and knitwear.

Apologies if I came across as angry or offended. I'm a bit shouty but will happily have a heated debate without falling out with anyone.

I did bite at the Braveheart stuff as lots of "discussions" I see on this descend into "well its just all about Mel Gibson isn't it you silly kids, its not real you know? Like santa....*chuckle chuckle ridicule** etc." Which just isn't getting us anywhere. It grinds my gears as its usually designed to.

Believe it or not, I'm not convinced either of what I'd vote for. But I am certain that I won't be turning my back and saying no at this stage either. I'm frankly amazed with the lack of certainty in lots of it that anyone has made their mind up. Walking blindly past an independent Scotland is as bad as walking blindly into it through ignorance, apathy or bigotry either way in the general populace.

Its dangerous to see the campaign as anti-english too, but its easy to paint it that way and make it look xenophobic and bigoted. If we were governed by Armenia, Spain or Montenegro we'd still be able to have a debate on what could be better with self governence. Its about what could be better with more focus and less waste(which is obviously debatable) not about "getting rid of those nasty sassanachs" whom we have a lot of history with, not all of which is bad.

Yes, I do expect the Yes campaign to insert scenes which may resemble a VisitScotland advert but in the same vein I'd expect similar imagery from the No campaign of Scots at the Olympics, World War victories, Empire with fighting Scots at the forefront, Scottish Enlightenment and inventiveness which was post union and "North British" in nature. Lots of focus on the Blue in the union flag etc.

We're up against that as we are in any marketing campaign to claw through the bullshit and see whats real and what matters.

I wish us all good luck with that.

[LY_Scott]

The yes campaign released a video with top ten unionist myths. The unionist, no campaign had it banned on youtube under copyright laws as it obviously has some of their footage in it. That sort of back fired as it went viral through other means. I will post a link up shortly once i get to work.

[LY_Scott]

http://www.facebook....200973889373546

[LY_Scott]

September 18th 2014.

[LazyDonkey]

http://www.facebook....200973889373546

i don't see that video adding anything to the campaign. Far from debunking myths it seems to raise as many questions as it answers. As someone on the fence i also find the tone really patronising. Keen to get a second view, i didn't make any comments on it but said to Mrs Donkey (who doesn't care about politics and hasn't yet decided which way she's going to vote) "watch this". Within about 5 mins she said found it really irritating and smug and said it would put her off voting yes.

The yes campaign need to stop trying to score points, stop trying to be smart.....take a deep breath and present the facts in a calm and rational way.

They need to approach it as you would do if you were selling a product - be confident in your product and don't fall into the trap of slagging off your competitors. There are so many people on the fence that they need to be much less black and white.

2p from a marketing graduate

Edited by LazyDonkey, 22 March 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[LY_Scott]

I would agree and I don't believe the video is officially endorsed. It does cover off a few repeated mistruths though. The No campaign is just as bad for not presenting any case at all for the status quo. The BBC had one of the Tunnock's family on last night's Reporting Scotland speaking for the No camp, don't know if you seen it? He waffled on about he'd done national service for queen and country and that last year he'd been at Number 10 and seen David Cameron "He seems to be doing a good job". Even the BBC's Jackie Bird asked him how it would really affect his business and that no-one is just going to stop eating biscuits. He says they might put a tax on imports from Scotland. Oh...pur......leeeeees. Sorry pal but your Jolly's to London and your experience of youth are personal one's and not not reasons to keep the status quo. FS

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

Can't we just start off with a different time zone for Scotland ? Just that we be enough for me !

[G-Bob]

Can't we just start off with a different time zone for Scotland ?
Just that we be enough for me !

We could get rid of that stupid DST for a start!

[LY_Scott]

We tried that before lol

[slindborg]

What would GMT become at the wall?

[LazyDonkey]

The No campaign is just as bad for not presenting any case at all for the status quo

But that's the point. The status quo doesn't NEED to make any case at all. It's the Yes campaign that need to convince me that it's a cause worth voting for.

All i need is for someone to convince me, who works for a company based in London, that independence would improve my life and the life of others in Scotland.

So far they've been unable to do that and until they do I'd rather have the status quo thanks. It's not perfect but who's to say the alternative would be better?

Edited by LazyDonkey, 22 March 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[LY_Scott]

What would GMT become at the wall?

UTC silly

Look up Sir Sanford Fleming too.

[LY_Scott]

The No campaign is just as bad for not presenting any case at all for the status quo

But that's the point. The status quo doesn't NEED to make any case at all. It's the Yes campaign that need to convince me that it's a cause worth voting for.

All i need is for someone to convince me, who works for a company based in London, that independence would improve my life and the life of others in Scotland.

So far they've been unable to do that and until they do I'd rather have the status quo thanks. It's not perfect but who's to say the alternative would be better?

BSkyB have a sizeable footprint in Scotland and have been in Livi from the start so 23 odd years. Ignoring the agents for a second and their talents like any of experience should not be ignored. The professional staff like yourself, technical IT talent and infrastructure built up over that time.

Do you think they would just up and leave? For what benefit? They may even find themselves in a better situation if the policy is right. Something we'd have control over in an independent Scotland.

[LazyDonkey]

They're less likely to up and leave if nothing changes though Joking aside i'm not saying they'd leave completely, but who's to say the tax situation under independence may make it more advantageous for the next big project to be based out of London. Then the next one. etc Likewise who's to say that high earners may not find themselves being taxed higher in Scotland than they would in England. I need to see details on what the plans are. I haven't seen any.

[techieboy]

What would GMT become at the wall? :lol:/>

I thought Scots were famously mean all the time, so MAT?

[LY_Scott]

What would GMT become at the wall? :lol:/>

I thought Scots were famously mean all the time, so MAT?

I hope the irony of the acronym is not lost on you MATT!

[techieboy]

No, it wasn't. I hesitated for a long time before posting it.