2141 replies to this topic

[LY_Scott]

Comments by Sir Angus Grossart, chairman of merchant bank Noble Grossart have been welcomed tonight by Finance Secretary John Swinney. Reported in the Financial Times Sir Angus, one of the most senior figures in the financial services sector, said some commentary on the referendum’s market impact had been “severely overstated” and people should “stay cool and not panic”. “I think it is getting out of hand, a severe overreaction,” he said. “The FTSE seems perfectly stable today, but to hear some of the comments you almost expect people to be predicting a plague of mice or locusts next

Edited by LY_Scott, 11 September 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[Rosssco]

Quality cherry picking

[Seb.F]

 

No one knows until it happens so both sides are just guessing.

 

 

This is perhaps the question everyone needs to ask:

 

Is it really worth putting all your faith (and the fate of your country) into guesswork?

[myles]

 

 

No one knows until it happens so both sides are just guessing.

 

 

This is perhaps the question everyone needs to ask:

 

Is it really worth putting all your faith (and the fate of your country) into guesswork?

 

 

 

I'm having this very conversation with a workmate now; all he comes back with is how we have sold ourselves into a corporate dictatorship. fcuking lefty babble if ever I heard it.

 

It's a massive gamble, if it comes off then it'll be a good move for Scotland. Big IF though.

[siztenboots]

 

Comments by Sir Angus Grossart, chairman of merchant bank Noble Grossart have been welcomed tonight by Finance Secretary John Swinney.

Reported in the Financial Times Sir Angus, one of the most senior figures in the financial services sector, said some commentary on the referendum’s market impact had been “severely overstated†and people should “stay cool and not panicâ€.

“I think it is getting out of hand, a severe overreaction,†he said. “The FTSE seems perfectly stable today, but to hear some of the comments you almost expect people to be predicting a plague of mice or locusts next

 

FTSE perfectly stable, massive support for Salmond

[Zuber]

Who says money is moving to London? The HQ isn't moving either. The RBS statement specifically states there are no plans to move operations or jobs. They've simply made legal changes to retain support of the Bank of England. The UK government owns 81% of RBS. Trading and operations will continue at their HQ and their other sites across Scotland.

 

Hopefully. At least in the short term, as far as we know. Of course, being owned by rUK means there is great interest in ensuring these jobs are kept in Scotland for the long term...  

[techieboy]

The RBS statement specifically states there are no plans to move operations or jobs.

RBS intends to retain a significant level of its operations and employment in Scotland to support its customers there and the activities of the whole Bank.

"intends to retain a significant level of its operations and employment" doesn't say that everything remains in Edinburgh (trading already occurs in London) though, just that there will still be a significant level of operations and employment. Who's to say what that means in reality, it might just mean the existing support functions remain there and not any kind of trading/investment operations. It'll only be a paper exercise or tick of a checkbox on their accounting software to shift any/all of the money making into RBS plc, the UK registered entity. Tesco Bank have also said they're making plans for a shift their registration to the UK as well. They best they could muster about the future was "no immediate impact on Scottish jobs". Hardly a resounding statement of support.

[Rosssco]

Hey, the YESNP have some powerful supporters now..

 

http://www.dailymail...ing-whisky.html

 

(Had to check to check it wasn't a Dailymash link..)

 

I suppose not being a fan of your neighbours to the South is not entirely uncommon thing..

Edited by Rosssco, 11 September 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[LY_Scott]

Ross even I can laugh at that. What tosh, but it reflects the pish that's being poured on the campaign at the moment. Here's wings over Scotland's slant if the newspapers told the truth for a day

might read something like this: “In a huge boost for the independence campaign, Royal Bank of Scotland today announced that it would move its registered office from Edinburgh to London in the event of a Yes vote. First Minister Alex Salmond was reported to be delighted that the possible future burden of having to bailout the failed bank had been lifted from the shoulders of the Scottish Government. (The threat was in fact a mythical one, as bank bailouts are not conducted on the basis of head-office location, but had frequently been rolled out as a scare story by the anti-independence campaign.) With RBS unlikely to pay any Corporation Tax for decades on account of its gargantuan and ongoinglosses from the financial crash, there was no downside for Holyrood, with the bank stating unambiguously in a letter to employees that it had ‘no intention to move operations or jobs’. (Corporation Tax is in any event levied on where business activity takes place, not where the headquarters is located.) In other words, an independent Scotland would keep all the benefits of the bank – employment, services and employee taxation and spending – with none of the dangerous liabilities. The news will encourage businesses to invest in the Scottish economy, knowing that their money is secure. The outcome would give an independent Scotland the best of both worlds.”

[siztenboots]

the real question is , if there was a vote by Welsh and English tax payers saying do you agree to pay for this , what would be the result.

 

[LY_Scott]

Pay for what?

[Rosssco]

Ah, good old Wings over Bath...

 

Not that the Rev is actually correct - the BoE has for a long time backed RBS, both as security and in pure cash terms. Its effectively a tax-payer owned bank (by the UK). Any shift does not really alter liabilities either way - the UK is still on the hook for it.. Just as it will take the cash from the sale of it in probably a few years time, of which Scotland might get nowt.. Oh and of course the huge assumption that they would remain in Scotland in years to come, with so little real operations here...

 

So RBS currently pays no corporation tax..? Never heard of that..

[LY_Scott]

No real operations here? Have you seen the Gogar HQ? Or the massive site at South Gyle? I don't think the BoE backing RBS was stated as a new thing?

[Rosssco]

I meant in terms of monetary value, for example, the retail banking side is miniscule in comparison to the investment side.

 

The potential issue however is that the viablity of these operations, when the business is based and focused on over-seas markets, uncertainty over currency, regulation, and capability to support it, might be that down the line (I'm not talking next year here) these roles are gradually shifted away. Same goes for the whole Edinburgh based finance sector. These places won't shut down over night, but the gradual deterioration of this industry is inevitable if condtions don't suit, and Scotland doesn't have the support and use of a strong, internationally tradable currency..

 

Your friend the Rev however doesn't really care in this respect, he see's it as just another liablity..

[Gedi]

How long would RBS / LLoyds last if they didn't start to move their main business south of the border (including the workforce)?

 

I'm currently with Lloyds, and I'm preparing to move my finances in the event of a yes vote. My family are doing the same, and some have already done it.

If even 30% of rUK are thinking the same, it'd be a heavy blow to their capital.

[LY_Scott]

There will be investment banking happening at the HQ. Much the same at SWIP which was bought out by AAM managed a fund of £146 billion from Edinburgh(Seen it with mine own eyes n that). With AAM this is now £360 billion. They are happy with a yes vote incidently, RBS do the same, from here. The things you talk about around regulation and and viability seems to suggest that a Scottish government would not seek to make it work. Why would they do that? Surely we'd do all we could to make it work. As the lovely trader said the other day he sees no reason why economically we couldn't make it work. Of course we could. Any other suggestion is purely ridiculous. The point on corporation tax from my friend the Rev of Bath is that corp tax is charged on profit. You can't pay corp tax if you make a loss.

Edited by LY_Scott, 11 September 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[techieboy]

You can't pay corp tax if you make a loss.

RBS make a profit and pay corporation tax. The money injected into it was converted into shares and isn't sat on their books as a loan to offset against profits.

[LY_Scott]

Happy days. What will tomorrow bring eh? Probably a lot of Nigel Farage in Glasgow. Enough from me, final word from chunky mark. Let yourself get to at least 1:20 his reaction to what he says will give you a laugh Manjana amigos

[LY_Scott]

Alright... 1 more. This was how labour MPs were welcomed to Glasgow today

[XXX]

A couple of practical matters crossed my mind today. In an independent Yescotland.....

 

What body will be responsible for the issue/reissue of Yescottish passports, given that HM Passport Office serve the UK?

What body will be responsible for the issue of Vehicle and Driving licensing, given that DVLA serve UK?

What about TV licensing?

Will the National Grid be happy to "export" electricity and gas to Yescotland?

Will a seperate body be set up to replace HMRC?

Will a seperate Border Force be set up by Yescotland?

 

It strikes me that, given that Independence Day will be March 2016, there is too little time to set these bodies up from scratch. I am damn sure us fcuking English won't be helping with this process. Anyhow, the Data Protection Act would prevent us from sharing any current records.... The IT implications alone will be staggering.

 

A couple of other, minor issues:

 

Will Yescotland automatically adopt UK driving laws - drink driving, national speed limits etc - or will these be reviewed?

Will Yescotland still be part of the Commonwealth? (not that this really matters to anyone ?) 

 

These ARE, mostly, serious questions that don't recall being discussed.

 

Anyway - I would be sad to see the UK broken up in what I feel to be an anti-Tory, anti current-government, act. In my heart, I hope Yes voters will not be regretting their decision (IF they "win") when the next Labour government is voted in and taxes are halved, public spending doubled, interest rates reduced (what, further..!?) and every day is sunny. Like last time.

 

But, as an Englishman who loves to be hated, part of me does want to see the Braveheart-brigade win their vote, then live to regret it . Then call a referendum on UK Union. Then get the gate closed on them....

 

Good Luck "No" voters!