2141 replies to this topic

[siztenboots]

fair reasons, we want the same for all of UK

[Seb.F]

Seb, other countries saying we should stick together isn't for our benefit its usually for theirs. Self determination is the key Seb. Control of all of our resources, wealth and a move to the natural left. Ross isn't a leftie and I'm not a Sheridan grade socialist either and we can vote how far we go but then that's up to us.

 

I think that's putting slightly too much emphasis on the 'worth' of Scotland but I understand what you are saying, however I completely disagree.

 

The world should be about sharing and caring and not about hoarding natural resources, which is I all seem to hear out of Salmond.

[LY_Scott]

Yep, I get that. The problem is no-one is offering it to the English electorate. Labour has moved too far to the right and there's really nothing to choose between them and the Tories plus Ed Milliband seems totally unelectable. I wouldnt trust him to run a bath. To quote our Tommy. http://www.dailyreco...y-bragg-4023312 There's been a huge political awakening in Scotland and its great to see. I'd love to see the established Westminster MP's dragged away from gravy pot and proper MP's who represent the people take over. You need to get angry! Its slowly happening. My worry is that people are moving to UKIP as an alternative, they are not the answer.

[slindborg]

fair reasons, we want the same for all of UK

 

This...

 

While I'm a bit of a commie/capitalist (although poor), I think everyone should pitch in, everyone should prosper and stuff should be fair. Its not too much to ask but none of the politics lot ever seem to be able or interested in doing that. And I bet the SNP run into the same problems that while they can promise to have a go at doing XYZ, the reality is that they can do a bit of X, some of Y and Z can FRO

[LY_Scott]

Seb, it depends. The difference between "hoarding" our resources really means managing them properly and not squandering them. Do you see the current government as one that cares and shares? I'd be absolutely astonished if you did.

[Rosssco]

The problem with Scott's ascertains (or, perhaps assumptions), is that shifting of power from Westminster to Holyrood will provide a great opportunity to solve issues that a national, global and are ingrained into our society, and are in part a result of our own desire become better off. That isn't going to change by creating a border I'm afraid.

 

We live in a very global world where, I believe, we have to be as switched on and aware of our influence and position within that world, and what other countries expect of us. There's no such thing as the nation state anymore, its just an inter-connected web of political affiliations, trade agreements, defence agreements, and the selection of how much soverignty you want to surrender, knowing that if you don't, you will be regarded as a back-wards looking state.

 

On its own, independance provides nothing, it only offers the chance to alter local policy and resources to a slightly greater degree than under the current settlement. There's absolutely nothing to suggest we will even move 'to the Left' as Scott puts it in any substantional form, in fact, I predict a resurgent Conservative party (or a re-branded version of), as there will be a demand for a right-wing alternative, just like every other country in the world.

 

Read an interesting article about the Yes campaign, which highlighted its made up of a number of disparate and contradicatory groups, all with competing ideologies who will all want a piece of the new cake. How can the Green party agree with sucking as much oil out of the NS, or the Left sqaure with the pro-business lobby who want to increase out competitiveness..? Same squabbles, smaller arena..

 

This isn't really about democracy - we will still vote on the same Scottish parliement, with the same dividing lines, the same promises of change and political manifesto's that rarely come true, just that they will have more power.

 

People will probably stay politically energised for a while, until they realise they really have no more control over political direction that they had before.. They will not be prepared for the hard choices that a future Scottish government will have to make, as all do, but the current SNP leadership hasn't because they can currently point and blame lack of funding and control to others.

 

 We will still be heavily reliant on the rUK and what political tack it takes due to trade and avoidance of coming into direct competition, and under current plans we will have our budgets essentially decided for us by foreigners (if the currency union actually happens). Not even Eurozone members have to endure that. 

[LY_Scott]

Sounds like there's a desire for a move to the left in England too. You'll need to find a party who wish to go left and not get caught up in imperial willy waving or selling everything that's not tied down. It is coming.

[slindborg]

Sounds like there's a desire for a move to the left in England too. You'll need to find a party who wish to go left and not get caught up in imperial willy waving or selling everything that's not tied down. It is coming.

 

 

there is no valid option though....

[G-Bob]

It's not about hoarding, but when people say you are going to be poor, then you have to point out what assets you have to make your quality of life (as a country) better.

 

I always remember a quote from way back in the start saying (something like)  no country that has ever gone independent has been told that it would be a good idea and would be told they would fail, The majority have done well.

[LY_Scott]

Yep which is why people vote for UKIP. I hear that.

[Rosssco]

Do you see the current government as one that cares and shares? I'd be absolutely astonished if you did.

 

I would challenge you to find anyone in any country that really thinks their government cares about them?

 

Governments are there fundamentally to organise of good defence to protect the countries inhabitants, take in a distribute resources, and pay attention to the wants / needs of the population.

 

They are not a benevolent society with our wishes as their priority..

[Seb.F]

I harbour a vehement hate for UKIP.

[Rosssco]

 

I always remember a quote from way back in the start saying (something like)  no country that has ever gone independent has been told that it would be a good idea and would be told they would fail, The majority have done well.

 

Its a good quote Bob, but context is everything.

 

I'd bet none of these countries was a sucessful, safe, fully democratic country with a long histroy of cooperation - they were oppressed in some way, colonial, or previously part of a much larger homogenous state which didn't represent them.

 

I know a harded Nat would claim that's Scotland, but it clearly isn't..

[slindborg]

Yep which is why people vote for UKIP. I hear that.

 

which goes to show that large swathes of a voting population are fuckwits....

[Rosssco]

PS.- Scott, here's the Editorial from the FT

 

http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz3D2qOoe00

[LY_Scott]

Cannae see it without an account Ross. Is it them backing No?

[Rosssco]

Really, its free access for me...

 

As I mentioned a few posts back, they are backing No (or they make the case for the Union, which is slightly ironic given their previous analysis on wealth is so often used as Yes campaign weapon..)

[Zoobeef]

Couple of new things that have bugged me. If a chav can only talk and write in some chavvy text speak it's laughed at and not used by "normal" people. Usually because it makes you sound like a mong. So we the fcuk are all the Scottish writing like they speak. Write English FFS. Which brings me onto my second point. When you shut the gate can you leave our language on our side?

[LY_Scott]

We speak Scots http://en.m.wikipedi.../Scots_language

[XXX]

The Yes voters seem do damn confident in the utopia of Yescotland and, with their despising off all things Westminster, I am beginning to hope they win. Just to see the sh*t hit the fan.

 

On a side note - does anyone else find Alison Stugeon's smug manner really, really irritating? I could slap her with a wet Salmon....