2141 replies to this topic

[Gedi]

This BBC comment sums it up nicely

 

Quote

 

 

[color=rgb(80,80,80);font-family:Arial, Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;font-size:13px;]To all those still unsure, please remember that in the event of a Yes vote:[/color]

[color=rgb(80,80,80);font-family:Arial, Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;font-size:13px;]Joining a currency unions with rUK is not Scotland's decision[/color]
[color=rgb(80,80,80);font-family:Arial, Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;font-size:13px;]Joining the EU is not Scotland's decision[/color]
[color=rgb(80,80,80);font-family:Arial, Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;font-size:13px;]Joining NATO is not Scotland's decision[/color]

[color=rgb(80,80,80);font-family:Arial, Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;font-size:13px;]Despite what S&S tell you, Scotland's future will not be in Scotland's hands[/color]

 

Salmond has no answer to questions surrounding these topics. Why would anyone vote yes without clear answers, Scotland will be isolated and in trouble, it's such a crazy gamble.

[LY_Scott]

He has answered those. A million times. People believe what they want to believe. Answers given will never be enough if you're going to vote no anyway.

[LY_Scott]

Anyone saying S&S doesn't have a clear impartial slant in their mind.

[Seb.F]

LY_Scott, on 17 Sept 2014 - 2:09 PM, said:

He has answered those. A million times.

 

Could you elaborate as I genuinely didn't know there were any (not sarcasm).

 

 

LY_Scott, on 17 Sept 2014 - 2:09 PM, said:

People believe what they want to believe. Answers given will never be enough if you're going to vote no anyway.

 

 

I could say the same for the 'other side' of the argument too.

[LY_Scott]

I totally agree Seb and I've stated such. The answers centre common sense. Let's take NATO A lot of people aren't even bothered about NATO but consider where Scotland sits in the North Atlantic. How access to its seas are required and its airspace for intercepting Russian planes headed from the north. Also consider the joint NATO forces exercises that always take place off Scotland's coast. Never mind the nuclear weapons which will be there for years yet. The EU, if we were not entered into the EU. We already meet every requirement as we've been a member for decades. We already put EU law into Scots Law. The EU has an expansionist agenda. There are people living in Scotland purely based on being EU citizens and Scots abroad. Our fishing stocks, our oil, our renewable energy potential share etc... Currency union is up for debate but arguments centre around balance of trades as Scotland is an exporter where as the the uk overall imports more than it exports. There's our pal the oil again. It would cost the ruk millions in potential transaction costs, yes it would cost us too, but its a cut off your nose to spite your face thing. I think we will form a monetary union of sorts over the 18 month period. Its odd that a government love bombing us, pleading etc and offering bribes will suddenly wish to run us over with the bus in spite of themselves if we make a democratic choice.

[Gedi]

It's all guesswork, there are no clear answers. You're basically voting to gamble with your country.

 

 

[LY_Scott]

How could we get clearer answers than that? You'll believe what you want to believe.

[Seb.F]

LY_Scott, on 17 Sept 2014 - 2:24 PM, said:

Currency union is up for debate but arguments centre around balance of trades as Scotland is an exporter where as the the uk overall imports more than it exports. There's our pal the oil again. It would cost the ruk millions in potential transaction costs, yes it would cost us too, but its a cut off your nose to spite your face thing. I think we will form a monetary union of sorts over the 18 month period. Its odd that a government love bombing us, pleading etc and offering bribes will suddenly wish to run us over with the bus in spite of themselves if we make a democratic choice.

 

On this last point, from what I gather from people in parliament, the reasoning was more like "Oh sh*t fcuk let's not let them have it in case they drag us down with them".

[Gedi]

Because the unions all these deals need to be done with are saying it won't happen. 

 

If I say I'm going to start playing football for my local team and they say I'm not, I can't just turn up and start playing football with them anyway.

[LY_Scott]

We're not rejecting the EU or NATO. There is no precedent for ejecting 5.2 million EU citizens. The current EU commission president states Scotland is a special case and he will respect the democratic choice. Pretty hard to push for democracy in the east and reject and eject 5.2 million people in the west.

[myles]

Scott, by this time Friday you are going to need a pint!

[myles]

Maybe two!

Edited by myles, 17 September 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[LY_Scott]

Need one already mate. I am a nervous mess. Going to a yes event on princes street shortly and there's one up the meadows later. I'll give any cameras a wave for you.

[myles]

LY_Scott, on 17 Sept 2014 - 2:48 PM, said:

Need one already mate. I am a nervous mess. Going to a yes event on princes street shortly and there's one up the meadows later. I'll give any cameras a wave for you.

 

 

Exciting times! Politics aside, I'd imagine experiencing this is akin to seeing a new island erupt from the sea!

[G-Bob]

Nothing is certain.

 

If we go independant, then we will apply and negotiate on the things we want Scotland to have as a nation.  Notice I said negotiate.  This isn't just a case of us saying "Give us that, we should have it".  We will have to offer something in return like perhaps access to airspace, or export rights etc. but it'll all get worked out.

There will be things that we have to give up in order to do international business, but at the same time we will gain through these negotiations.  Lots of international relations will be a comprimise for the sake of the country, but internally we should be able to govern as the majority vote.

[Zoobeef]

Let me get this straight. The yes people are whining because the BRITISH broadcasting corporation is leaning towards the side that doesn't want you to go off as your own country. On he oil note, what are you going to do once it's gone in 40 years? Or do you not think that far ahead as Friday is the target?

[G-Bob]

1. we can survive and still operate without the oil money.  Although a lot of the money may get used in the first few years in order to stabilise our economy and setup our country.

2.  The oil is a bonus

3.  Some of the money we get from the oil will be going into an oil fund to invest in the countries future and to wean it off the dependency of using oil money.

 

[Rosssco]

Scott is correct, those issues have been answered in a literal sense, its just that those answers do not satisfy the majority of thinking minded people who are not enveloped in the "vision", and therefore will accept a compromised or unlikely outcome.

 

They also think in absolutes, such in or out, when in fact the defining factors on many issues are the conditions that will apply.

 

For example, I also believe that after much negotiations, the rUK political parties will be able to come to some compromised arrangement to share currency in a formal manner. However, they will demand significant control over the Scottish fiscal status, economy, spending, regulation etc.etc. In order to save political face, Team Salmond will accept this, and claim victory. Scotland will be in almost no more control of its finances and only slightly more able to "change into a better society". For those who demand independance at any cost, this will suffice, as they can walk out all proud feeling a sense of achievement..

 

Scotland, by leaving the UK, chooses to leave its current position within the EU. However, wanting us to remain in, a deal will be made with the EU. I predict in order for it not to look attractive to other potential break-away regioons, will be required to work towards adopting the Euro with 5-10 years, some fishing rights will be given to the Spanish, and various other concessions will be made, and current opt-outs removed. We will be Europized.. Again it will all look politically amicable, and Team Salmand will say "Look, told you we'd achieve a deal for Scotland..!"

 

NATO will will approve our membership as long as we make certain commitments, which may include provision of troops for foreign conflicts, and set a minimum spend limit, which we will need to adhere to. Faslane will remain operational as the base for Trident as an entry condition. Remember, Trident is an SNP policy, not necessarily a future Scottish government one, so that can be neatly side-stepped if the SNP are not in power.. 

 

We will become just another, fairly uninteresting European state, with all the same culture etc. as before, but towing the EU superstate policies. That's fine for some people apparently..

[Rosssco]

G-Bob, on 17 Sept 2014 - 3:06 PM, said:

1. we can survive and still operate without the oil money.  Although a lot of the money may get used in the first few years in order to stabilise our economy and setup our country.

2.  The oil is a bonus

3.  Some of the money we get from the oil will be going into an oil fund to invest in the countries future and to wean it off the dependency of using oil money.

 

 

 

Bob, can you please show me an independant analysis that show's this..? If you believe this, you have been badly mislead.. Plus, I don't want to survive.. Believe it or not, most people don't want to sacrifice their standard of living just to change the name above the door..

 

Any oil tax money will be used to plug holes in our budget deficit (in both short and long term scenarios), even more so when we abandon any fiscal consolidation / austerity programmes as proposed, and we are hit for costs associated with separation..

[LY_Scott]

The UK runs a deficit, a huge one. Most countries run a deficit especially post 2008. How's your standard of living Ross?