2141 replies to this topic

[Rosssco]

Need one already mate. I am a nervous mess.  

 

What?! You haven't started celibrating yet..? I've been drinking for days..

[G-Bob]

Just remember folks, once you vote NO there's no going back. You will be stuck with this financially unstable debt-ridden country forever.

[KurtVerbose]

The UK runs a deficit, a huge one. Most countries run a deficit especially post 2008. How's your standard of living Ross?

 

Scotland would also run a deficit. In likelihood, a much larger one. How are you going to fund it given you have a borrowed currency, no central bank and so much uncertainty?  

I don't like this argument to be about money, because long term it shouldn't be. But there will be a cost for independence. Maybe the votes would be different if the £ value was put next to the yes or no options.

[Rosssco]

The UK runs a deficit, a huge one. Most countries run a deficit especially post 2008. How's your standard of living Ross?

 

Of course it does, but Scotland will take on a equivalent share of this debt (probably) but shall be a much smaller economy, with a slightly larger public sector,no contol of its currency or interest rates, be much more reliant on oil and gas income, and that's before any so-called referendum promises have been made.. These are short-term issues, but unless radical changes are made (probably to a right-wing, economically liberal approach), we will be poorer overall compared to the country we left..

 

My standard of living - I'd say it's ok. have a job (well, for now), a flat, a car, and some spare money to waste on things I don't need.. I might try other countries at some stage, not because they are any better in a societal sense, but just a chnage of scenery..

[Rosssco]

Just remember folks, once you vote NO there's no going back. You will be stuck with this financially unstable debt-ridden country forever.

 

If independance is your thing, there's more than one way to skin a cat - Scotland will inevitablty move away in some senses from the UK. I think it will still be in it (hopefully) as part of a UK format, but will eventually run most of its affairs in an almost federal approach.

 

Just because some of us don't want to take this massive leap into the dark, based on a pretty poor independance perspectus (IMO), and because we are not bothered about claiming glory for our generation, does not mean that we are short-sighted enough to not want change. Unfortuantely "change" has been in many way hijacked by the Yes campaign, as its the only way they see..

 

Rome wasn't built in a day. And I'm afraid a successful, sustainable, independant / autonomous Scotland won't be built in 18 months, on a referendum partly built on blame, fear, nationalism and a sucessful marketing campaign..

Edited by Rosssco, 17 September 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[G-Bob]

 

 

If independance is your thing, there's more than one way to skin a cat - Scotland will inevitablty move away in some senses from the UK. I think it will still be in it (hopefully) as part of a UK format, but will eventually run most of its affairs in an almost federal approach.

 

I agree with this.  I think our economies are similar and it suits us for the sake of business etc. to adopt similar laws and affairs to an extent.

 

Just because some of us don't want to take this massive leap into the dark, based on a pretty poor independance perspectus (IMO), and because we are not bothered about claiming glory for our generation, does not mean that we are short-sighted enough to not want change. Unfortuantely "change" has been in many way hijacked by the Yes campaign, as its the only way they see..

 

If we stay together and the whole of Scotland votes to change a specific way, then it means jack sh*t in the grand scheme of the UK.  How many people (not just in Scotland) were apposed the bedroom tax?  What difference did it make even when the rest of the UK were involved?  Nothing.   Scotland did something about it, but took money away from other services to do so.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day. And I'm afraid a successful, sustainable, independant / autonomous Scotland won't be built in 18 months, on a referendum partly built on blame, fear, nationalism and a sucessful marketing campaign.

 

Nothing will be fixed overnight, and things could go pear-shaped for Scotland no-matter what happens.  It's just interesting to see the backlash from the politicians elsewhere in the UK around this, and this is also not going to go away overnight.  

In the same way that there's "no going back" for independence, there's also no going back in our lifetime if we keep the union. 

[Harry Hornet]

You, re all doomed, doomed I tell yea Yes and you still have s h I t goalkeepers No and you still have s h I t goalkeepers Ye just canna win

[bunsenburner]

Firstly I will apologise if this question has been covered earlier - I have read about 9 million pages on this thread but can read no more!

 

I am instinctively inclined to support the No vote as a larger country will always have better odds of success than a small one, and a yes vote would make us both smaller.  Who knows what the world will look like in 100yrs times.

 

Which side do the credible academic and business figures come down on?

 

The issue is so complex and important I wonder if the electorate are really capable of making an informed decision - even more so the average 16 year old....but I guess that's how democracy works!

 

Do these people need to be saved from themselves?

[Rosssco]

If we stay together and the whole of Scotland votes to change a specific way, then it means jack sh*t in the grand scheme of the UK. How many people (not just in Scotland) were apposed the bedroom tax? What difference did it make even when the rest of the UK were involved? Nothing. Scotland did something about it, but took money away from other services to do so.

 

You are missing the part Bob where we have significant power already within Scotland. The bedroom tax was funds that would have been allocated if there was no bedroom tax policy in the UK. We effecticely (or the SNP did) choose to reinstate these payments, albeit from a slightly different funding route. Cost us no more / no less either way..

 

Nothing will be fixed overnight, and things could go pear-shaped for Scotland no-matter what happens. It's just interesting to see the backlash from the politicians elsewhere in the UK around this, and this is also not going to go away overnight.

In the same way that there's "no going back" for independence, there's also no going back in our lifetime if we keep the union.

 

Realistically, and this point has been made by a few political commentators, the political ball has been set in motion. I'm not saying the UK government will be eager to transfer power willy nilly, but the option of them reneging on the transfer of meaning power, will just mean we will end up (after a few years) back to the same situation. The UK has the chance (assuming a No) to satisfy the majority of Scottish voters with a fair transfer of power. if they don't and are seen not to be, I'll vote against them myself..

[LY_Scott]

Oh yeeeha. I go away for an hour eh...

[LY_Scott]

At the meadows. A lot of people here. Quite noisy. Will be walking down to parliament soon Interesting times.

[Zuber]

We're not rejecting the EU or NATO. There is no precedent for ejecting 5.2 million EU citizens. The current EU commission president states Scotland is a special case and he will respect the democratic choice. Pretty hard to push for democracy in the east and reject and eject 5.2 million people in the west.

 

 

There is that spin that everyone talks about. Nobody is ejecting anyone. You would be choosing to leave.

 

The EU and NATO are a collection of Member States including the UK. You are choosing to leave the UK, so you will no longer be a member of the EU or NATO as you are no longer part of the UK. It's not complicated...

 

Now the chaps in NATO and the EU like to think they are a nice caring bunch and so you may be able to convince them that you should be allowed to keep your seat free, so you can pop back in, even though you are leaving. That is not the same as being entitled to stay in, which is the impression you are trying to give.  

Edited by Zuber, 17 September 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[peteslag]

I have friends and family up in Scotland and a massive great big wedge has been driven between them over all this. It really does seem 50/50 at the moment. The worst thing for me is the fact that approximately 2.65 million people are going to have something forced on them that they don't want, regardless of the outcome. I don't know which way the vote will go but I can't help thinking Scotland will be a very different place to live.

 

Good luck Scotland.

[peteslag]

This made me chuckle (sorry if it has already been posted on the thread but I'm not trawling through a gazillion pages):

 

[Claws]

[LY_Scott]

Um, put the news on

[slindborg]

Um, put the news on

The bias evil new? Why should we if its all so wrong?

[PaulCP]

Excuse me for being a huge sceptic here, and potentially lighting the blue touch paper, but isn't this "independence" thing all about power to Salmonds elbow and ego, just like the 70s miners strikes were all about Scargill Just like Scargill moved into his new palace during the miners strike, Salmond has already eyed up his palace. Unfortunately the non-great leaders need sheep to follow them to keep their own personal motives alive. Please don't throw grenades in my direction, I'm only expressing a view like everyone else😛

Edited by PaulCP, 17 September 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[LY_Scott]

They were not down reporting it stuff. But it's in the background of all the presenters at the media centre

[LY_Scott]

Stuff meant to be Stu lol

Edited by LY_Scott, 18 September 2014 - 07:09 AM.