59 replies to this topic

[Bumblebee]

Hi Without out starting a debate and sticking to this topic :-) I'm thinking of upgraded to either PA chargecooler or MMG inercooler,I am tempted with the MMG stage 4 intercooler for the only reason I might be tempted to get the full stage 4 next year but in the meantime can any 1 see any probs running the stage 4 intercooler on my stage 2 car,Liam seems to think he can get round any probs , does any one have any graphs/suggestions/advice etc??? Thanks Aimy

Edited by Aimy, 22 January 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[GeorgeBC]

I think chrisgold ran the MMG satge 4 IC on a stage 2 mapped car at the national last year. Might be worth asking him what he thought of it.

[Bumblebee]

Thanks for that il pm him :-)

[spuk87]

Check with Liam (if you haven't already) because I know the bigger IC doesn't work very well on lower powered cars due to lack of flow through the exhaust compared with eg stage 4.

[turbobob]

The only slight downside to the stage 4 intercooler (and you will get this with the chargecooler too) is that they are both designed to work with the higher pressure turbo. So you may notice a little more lag. But thats really the only downside. If you aren't going to go down the stage 4 route, there is a smaller cheaper intercooler suitable for standard all the way up to stage 3. This is designed to work with the standard turbo and makes the car more responsive and actually gives you the added benefit of a few more bhp. I have this intercooler fitted to mine and am very happy with it. The two major plus factors of the intercooler over the charge cooler is it is cheaper and considerably easier to fit

Edited by turbobob, 22 January 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[turbobob]

Check with Liam (if you haven't already) because I know the bigger IC doesn't work very well on lower powered cars due to lack of flow through the exhaust compared with eg stage 4.

It will still work, but you will get a little more lag. But as I say, you will also get more lag using the charge cooler

[techieboy]

The two major plus factors of the intercooler over the charge cooler is it is cheaper and considerably easier to fit

And the minus points are?

[turbobob]

The two major plus factors of the intercooler over the charge cooler is it is cheaper and considerably easier to fit

And the minus points are?

[Bumblebee]

Is anyone using the MMG Stage 4 intercooler? As anyone measured charge temps standard Vs MMG Vs CC? Thanks Aimy

[slindborg]

There is fcuk all empirical data from ny VX mods really..... Its about time there was IMHO. I'll get my data logger made erm next year lol

[ArticMonkey]

There's a reason the CC is more and that's because it's going to do a better job in prolonged condictions, more parts to use and time taken to build . A fan can be bolted on to cool the rad when it gets to high temps and water cooling is more efficient than air cooling. If you want to go stage4 IMO you are limiting yourself with an IC. Yes its quicker to use and fit but at the end of the day, you are paying for more BHP, if it tales off after heat soak whats the point? PS. this was always going to be a debate when you hit the post button.

[MrSimba]

Blimey saw the thread topic and was getting ready to put a kevlar vest on before clicking expecting a mini war in here but its all rather restrained and everyones playing nicely for once! Back on topic... Liam's VXR aint exactly slow now is it? he's actually de-tuned it for drivability and it has been tracked all around Europe in all temperatures and I know he's never experienced any problems with his IC set up. The arguments re CC vs IC will go on and on but Liam is absolutely methodical with everything that he does and he's monitored the cars data extensively and his IC works. period. Th best thing to do if you want to go IC rather than CC is to talk to Liam, as has been said already there are different core specs and sizes dependant on your requirements. I've seen Liam's IC complete with carbon 'air ram' to focus all the air into the IC which itself has alloy extrusions to channel the air flow into it, none of this is seen once the vent & grill are back on the car, it is a very high quality product.

[GeorgeBC]

There's a reason the CC is more and that's because it's going to do a better job in prolonged condictions, more parts to use and time taken to build . A fan can be bolted on to cool the rad when it gets to high temps and water cooling is more efficient than air cooling.

If you want to go stage4 IMO you are limiting yourself with an IC. Yes its quicker to use and fit but at the end of the day, you are paying for more BHP, if it tales off after heat soak whats the point?

PS. this was always going to be a debate when you hit the post button.

The owners of the cars that run the intercoolers don't complain about the heat soak though. Ive not heard a bad word about it from anyone with one. The CC is early twice the price and harder to fit.

Non of this that has been covered to death is helping Aimy and theres no part starting a new discussion. She wants to here from someone with the IC that has logged temps, not people that don't have one fitted.

[ArticMonkey]

Sorry I spoke, on an OPEN forum.

[Bumblebee]

Yeah I agree, it would be nice to no the facts :-)

Edited by Aimy, 22 January 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[turbobob]

Ffs more misinformation. There are a number of people running Mmg stage 4 with the Mmg stage 4 Intercooler. I know of at least three that have tracked it and not suffered heat soak. So please don't make such unfounded assumptions. Charge coolers are more inefficient as they have to transfer heat - air, metal, water, metal, air. Intercooler is air, metal, air.

[GeorgeBC]

The best thing to do if you want to go IC rather than CC is to talk to Liam, as has been said already there are different core specs and sizes dependant on your requirements.

Liams always going to big it up as its his product.

People visit forums to get honest opinions not just what the manufacturer says. The customers will be honest as they have no investment in the product especially after spending a lot of money. If people were unhappy with it somebody would have slagged them off by now, but nobody that has one fitted to my knowledge has?

[Bumblebee]

I understand that :-) but surely no one knows how good a product is without data

[turbobob]

Off the top of my head martini mike took his stage 4 round le man's (on track) and it was 27 degrees. The intake temp didn't go above 42 degrees.

[GeorgeBC]

I understand that :-) but surely no one knows how good a product is without data

Nobody seems to have any though

As your not in a rush maybe it would be a good idea to keep an eye on the track day forum and try and pop down to a trackday in summer on a hot day with an IC car. Get somebody to take you out for a good longish session and see if you notice much/any difference in performance before they have to come in because of tyres or brakes. If you can wait till the national you will have plenty of CC cars and plenty of IC cars to compare. Admittedly its not going to give you figures but you may see an IC car retard and loose performance. Or you may see it pull like a train all day and help you make your mind up.

Hope this helps .