233 replies to this topic

[fezzasus]

Some pseudo maths for anyone who's interested: Today, due a cock up on my part, I had to fit my own heater to a car; this meant driving without a heater and the information I got is quite interesting. Some background first; the engines used in the VX220 use a separate feed for the heater; this feed cycles back into the thermostat - which is essentially a spring on a plate and is pressure activated. When the temperature of the water reaches a certain point, the pressure (which has increased due to increasing temp in a closed system) forces the valve open which opens the main cooling circuit through the radiator. The measured temperature is not part of the heater circuit but the main cooling circuit, this means that the amount of cooling done by the heater circuit will cause the thermostat to open at different temperatures, and as a result display a different measured temperature. If this is getting hard to follow then here's an example: Say that a vectra with a Z22SE is designed to operate at 92 deg. C, the heater circuit takes 6 deg. C out of the water, so the thermostat is designed to open when the water is 86 deg. C. Now take this system (and identical thermostat) and put it in the VX220 - now the heater is less effective and only removes 3 deg. C from the water, which means that the cooling circuit opens three degrees before it does on the VX220 - in this case at 89 deg. C. The move is actually what happens in practice. I know that with the heater i'm selling here the thermostat opens between 90 and 91 deg. C in my case - which is getting close to Vectra/Astra/Zafira levels of heat removal, but until today I didn't know what was the baseline eg. what temperature the engine is at without a heater attached. It turns out it's 86 deg. C So we now have a 6 degree scale between no heating and Vectra levels of heating. Calling the vectra heater 100 % heat, we see that the OEM heater in the VX220 is only 50 % as effective (and this is only taking into account heat transfer, not air loss to the atmosphere once it's been heated), the heater i'm selling here is about 80 % as effective as the Vectra heater - which is pretty much what I agree with and what others have said too. So not massively accurate, but we can at least start to put some numbers together to explain the improvement. Now, back to making them.

[vocky]

thermostat - which is essentially a spring on a plate and is pressure activated

it's heat activated, not pressure

stick it in boiling water and it opens

[fezzasus]

thermostat - which is essentially a spring on a plate and is pressure activated

it's heat activated, not pressure

stick it in boiling water and it opens

ah okay, I assumed it was pressure as it was pretty confused when I had a kink in my heater pipe.

Regardless, the effect of the heater stays the same.

[ArticMonkey]

Some pseudo maths for anyone who's interested:

Today, due a cock up on my part, I had to fit my own heater to a car; this meant driving without a heater and the information I got is quite interesting.

Some background first; the engines used in the VX220 use a separate feed for the heater; this feed cycles back into the thermostat - which is essentially a spring on a plate and is pressure activated. When the temperature of the water reaches a certain point, the pressure (which has increased due to increasing temp in a closed system) forces the valve open which opens the main cooling circuit through the radiator.

The measured temperature is not part of the heater circuit but the main cooling circuit, this means that the amount of cooling done by the heater circuit will cause the thermostat to open at different temperatures, and as a result display a different measured temperature. If this is getting hard to follow then here's an example:

Say that a vectra with a Z22SE is designed to operate at 92 deg. C, the heater circuit takes 6 deg. C out of the water, so the thermostat is designed to open when the water is 86 deg. C. Now take this system (and identical thermostat) and put it in the VX220 - now the heater is less effective and only removes 3 deg. C from the water, which means that the cooling circuit opens three degrees before it does on the VX220 - in this case at 89 deg. C.

The move is actually what happens in practice. I know that with the heater i'm selling here the thermostat opens between 90 and 91 deg. C in my case - which is getting close to Vectra/Astra/Zafira levels of heat removal, but until today I didn't know what was the baseline eg. what temperature the engine is at without a heater attached.

It turns out it's 86 deg. C

So we now have a 6 degree scale between no heating and Vectra levels of heating. Calling the vectra heater 100 % heat, we see that the OEM heater in the VX220 is only 50 % as effective (and this is only taking into account heat transfer, not air loss to the atmosphere once it's been heated), the heater i'm selling here is about 80 % as effective as the Vectra heater - which is pretty much what I agree with and what others have said too.

So not massively accurate, but we can at least start to put some numbers together to explain the improvement.

Now, back to making them.

So in other words, your more efficient heater is more efficient than standard?

Now I knew I wanted it for some reason.

[ChrisS1]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted
2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted
3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID)
4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID)
5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish)
6. Tom - complete, fitted
7. robin - in progress
8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID)
9. Ambrose - in progress
10. JG
11. VXed
12. Ansk
13. Snotvomit
14. PaulCP
15. dumfunk (fitting required)
16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting)
17. Worker (can collect from Oxford)
18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting
19. Andrew Partridge (before end March)
20. ArticMonkey
21. hughcam
22. mstambach01 (MK fitting)
23. adH
24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day)
25. SteveA
26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me)
27. Kipper
28. The Fat Man.
29. Lou_m
30. elwill
31. Hark
32. CocoPops
33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek
34. andywilson
35. Andy_sx
36. Asheey
37. TazN
38. Tink
39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting)
40. jhinchy
41. Coates1947
42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss)
43. VX Boyd (MK fitting)
44. John Boy
45. Jaz Woodward
46. Ian Roberts
47. D4nnyk
48. rickyzero
49. cressey
50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please)
51. AMOSS
52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes)
53. CT
54. neilchills (with MK fitting)
55. Kev S

[Delta Deano]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted
2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted
3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID)
4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID)fitted
5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish)
6. Tom - complete, fitted
7. robin - in progress
8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID)
9. Ambrose - in progress
10. JG
11. VXed
12. Ansk
13. Snotvomit
14. PaulCP
15. dumfunk (fitting required)
16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting)
17. Worker (can collect from Oxford)
18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting
19. Andrew Partridge (before end March)
20. ArticMonkey
21. hughcam
22. mstambach01 (MK fitting)
23. adH
24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day)
25. SteveA
26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me)
27. Kipper
28. The Fat Man.
29. Lou_m
30. elwill
31. Hark
32. CocoPops
33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek
34. andywilson
35. Andy_sx
36. Asheey
37. TazN
38. Tink
39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting)
40. jhinchy
41. Coates1947
42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss)
43. VX Boyd (MK fitting)
44. John Boy
45. Jaz Woodward
46. Ian Roberts
47. D4nnyk
48. rickyzero
49. cressey
50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please)
51. AMOSS
52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes)
53. CT
54. neilchills (with MK fitting)
55. Kev S

[Delta Deano]

So my car was allways displaying around 91.c but is around 93-95 now and builds up a lot quicker when in traffic than before but also goes back down very quickly when i set off again. Is this due to what you qouted above Fezzasus. I am still very happy last night i had to keep turning it off has it was too hot and i have never had that in a VX before.

[dumfunk]

So my car was allways displaying around 91.c but is around 93-95 now and builds up a lot quicker when in traffic than before but also goes back down very quickly when i set off again.
Is this due to what you qouted above Fezzasus.

I am still very happy last night i had to keep turning it off has it was too hot and i have never had that in a VX before.

Am I right in assuming you have an n/a? Has anyone fitted it to a tubby yet?

[fezzasus]

So my car was allways displaying around 91.c but is around 93-95 now and builds up a lot quicker when in traffic than before but also goes back down very quickly when i set off again.

Is this due to what you qouted above Fezzasus.

I am still very happy last night i had to keep turning it off has it was too hot and i have never had that in a VX before.

yeah that's pretty much what i've experienced too. I haven't had the temperature rise more than a couple of degrees since fitting it so i'm not concerned.

Glad you're enjoying the heat

So my car was allways displaying around 91.c but is around 93-95 now and builds up a lot quicker when in traffic than before but also goes back down very quickly when i set off again.
Is this due to what you qouted above Fezzasus.

I am still very happy last night i had to keep turning it off has it was too hot and i have never had that in a VX before.

Am I right in assuming you have an n/a? Has anyone fitted it to a tubby yet?

I fitted one to Tom's car a couple of weekends ago. It seems to get hotter quicker with a tubby, but no other differences.

[stigg10]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted
2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted
3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID)
4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID)
5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish)
6. Tom - complete, fitted
7. robin - in progress
8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID)
9. Ambrose - in progress
10. JG
11. VXed
12. Ansk
13. Snotvomit
14. PaulCP
15. dumfunk (fitting required)
16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting)
17. Worker (can collect from Oxford)
18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting
19. Andrew Partridge (before end March)
20. ArticMonkey
21. hughcam
22. mstambach01 (MK fitting)
23. adH
24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day)
25. SteveA
26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me)
27. Kipper
28. The Fat Man.
29. Lou_m
30. elwill
31. Hark
32. CocoPops
33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek
34. andywilson
35. Andy_sx
36. Asheey
37. TazN
38. Tink
39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting)
40. jhinchy
41. Coates1947
42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss)
43. VX Boyd (MK fitting)
44. John Boy
45. Jaz Woodward
46. Ian Roberts
47. D4nnyk
48. rickyzero
49. cressey
50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please)
51. AMOSS
52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes)
53. CT
54. neilchills (with MK fitting)
55. Kev S
56. Stigg10 (with MK fitting)

[ChubbyChiper]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted 2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted 3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID) 4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID) 5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish) 6. Tom - complete, fitted 7. robin - in progress 8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID) 9. Ambrose - in progress 10. JG 11. VXed 12. Ansk 13. Snotvomit 14. PaulCP 15. dumfunk (fitting required) 16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting) 17. Worker (can collect from Oxford) 18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting 19. Andrew Partridge (before end March) 20. ArticMonkey 21. hughcam 22. mstambach01 (MK fitting) 23. adH 24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day) 25. SteveA 26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me) 27. Kipper 28. The Fat Man. 29. Lou_m 30. elwill 31. Hark 32. CocoPops 33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek 34. andywilson 35. Andy_sx 36. Asheey 37. TazN 38. Tink 39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting) 40. jhinchy 41. Coates1947 42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss) 43. VX Boyd (MK fitting) 44. John Boy 45. Jaz Woodward 46. Ian Roberts 47. D4nnyk 48. rickyzero 49. cressey 50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please) 51. AMOSS 52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes) 53. CT 54. neilchills (with MK fitting) 55. Kev S 56. Stigg10 (with MK fitting) 57. Chubbychiper

[V220DR]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted 2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted 3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID) 4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID) 5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish) 6. Tom - complete, fitted 7. robin - in progress 8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID) 9. Ambrose - in progress 10. JG 11. VXed 12. Ansk 13. Snotvomit 14. PaulCP 15. dumfunk (fitting required) 16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting) 17. Worker (can collect from Oxford) 18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting 19. Andrew Partridge (before end March) 20. ArticMonkey 21. hughcam 22. mstambach01 (MK fitting) 23. adH 24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day) 25. SteveA 26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me) 27. Kipper 28. The Fat Man. 29. Lou_m 30. elwill 31. Hark 32. CocoPops 33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek 34. andywilson 35. Andy_sx 36. Asheey 37. TazN 38. Tink 39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting) 40. jhinchy 41. Coates1947 42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss) 43. VX Boyd (MK fitting) 44. John Boy 45. Jaz Woodward 46. Ian Roberts 47. D4nnyk 48. rickyzero 49. cressey 50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please) 51. AMOSS 52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes) 53. CT 54. neilchills (with MK fitting) 55. Kev S 56. Stigg10 (with MK fitting) 57. Chubbychiper 58. V220DR

[Pazuzu]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted 2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted 3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID) 4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID) 5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish) 6. Tom - complete, fitted 7. robin - in progress 8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID) 9. Ambrose - in progress 10. JG 11. VXed 12. Ansk 13. Snotvomit 14. PaulCP 15. dumfunk (fitting required) 16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting) 17. Worker (can collect from Oxford) 18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting 19. Andrew Partridge (before end March) 20. ArticMonkey 21. hughcam 22. mstambach01 (MK fitting) 23. adH 24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day) 25. SteveA 26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me) 27. Kipper 28. The Fat Man. 29. Lou_m 30. elwill 31. Hark 32. CocoPops 33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek 34. andywilson 35. Andy_sx 36. Asheey 37. TazN 38. Tink 39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting) 40. jhinchy 41. Coates1947 42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss) 43. VX Boyd (MK fitting) 44. John Boy 45. Jaz Woodward 46. Ian Roberts 47. D4nnyk 48. rickyzero 49. cressey 50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please) 51. AMOSS 52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes) 53. CT 54. neilchills (with MK fitting) 55. Kev S 56. Stigg10 (with MK fitting) 57. Chubbychiper 58. V220DR 59. Pazuzu

[dw1]

Added one more. 1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted 2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted 3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID) 4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID) 5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish) 6. Tom - complete, fitted 7. robin - in progress 8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID) 9. Ambrose - in progress 10. JG 11. VXed 12. Ansk 13. Snotvomit 14. PaulCP 15. dumfunk (fitting required) 16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting) 17. Worker (can collect from Oxford) 18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting 19. Andrew Partridge (before end March) 20. ArticMonkey 21. hughcam 22. mstambach01 (MK fitting) 23. adH 24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day) 25. SteveA 26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me) 27. Kipper 28. The Fat Man. 29. Lou_m 30. elwill 31. Hark 32. CocoPops 33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek 34. andywilson 35. Andy_sx 36. Asheey 37. TazN 38. Tink 39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting) 40. jhinchy 41. Coates1947 42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss) 43. VX Boyd (MK fitting) 44. John Boy 45. Jaz Woodward 46. Ian Roberts 47. D4nnyk 48. rickyzero 49. cressey 50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please) 51. AMOSS 52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes) 53. CT 54. neilchills (with MK fitting) 55. Kev S 56. Stigg10 (with MK fitting) 57. Chubbychiper 58. V220DR 59. Pazuzu 60. Dw1 (with MK fitting)

[Yellow_or_black?]

Is the progress as stated above still accurate, or are we any nearer me

[Lee Heath]

Go then put me down got to be done heating always good

[L0rdMike]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted 2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted 3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID) 4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID) 5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish) 6. Tom - complete, fitted 7. robin - in progress 8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID) 9. Ambrose - in progress 10. JG 11. VXed 12. Ansk 13. Snotvomit 14. PaulCP 15. dumfunk (fitting required) 16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting) 17. Worker (can collect from Oxford) 18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting 19. Andrew Partridge (before end March) 20. ArticMonkey 21. hughcam 22. mstambach01 (MK fitting) 23. adH 24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day) 25. SteveA 26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me) 27. Kipper 28. The Fat Man. 29. Lou_m 30. elwill 31. Hark 32. CocoPops 33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek 34. andywilson 35. Andy_sx 36. Asheey 37. TazN 38. Tink 39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting) 40. jhinchy 41. Coates1947 42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss) 43. VX Boyd (MK fitting) 44. John Boy 45. Jaz Woodward 46. Ian Roberts 47. D4nnyk 48. rickyzero 49. cressey 50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please) 51. AMOSS 52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes) 53. CT 54. neilchills (with MK fitting) 55. Kev S 56. Stigg10 (with MK fitting) 57. Chubbychiper 58. V220DR 59. Pazuzu 60. Dw1 (with MK fitting) 61. L0rdMike (with MK fitting)

[Lee Heath]

1. Techieboy - complete, shippedreceived, fitted 2. DuncanP - complete, shipped, received, fitted 3. TIP - complete, pending shipment (PAID) 4. deltadeano - complete, shipped(PAID) 5. Bargi - fan sourced, pending MK fitting (soonish) 6. Tom - complete, fitted 7. robin - in progress 8. ChrisS1 - in progress(PAID) 9. Ambrose - in progress 10. JG 11. VXed 12. Ansk 13. Snotvomit 14. PaulCP 15. dumfunk (fitting required) 16. Graeme Lambert (MK fitting) 17. Worker (can collect from Oxford) 18. Zuber - Would be interested in fitting 19. Andrew Partridge (before end March) 20. ArticMonkey 21. hughcam 22. mstambach01 (MK fitting) 23. adH 24. T VXT (dont mind waiting until April/May or MK fitting day) 25. SteveA 26. Way-Aye-Pete (end of the summer is fine for me) 27. Kipper 28. The Fat Man. 29. Lou_m 30. elwill 31. Hark 32. CocoPops 33. (if suitable to LHD - Speedster) ginek 34. andywilson 35. Andy_sx 36. Asheey 37. TazN 38. Tink 39. Blueboy69 (MK Fitting) 40. jhinchy 41. Coates1947 42. Martin s (MK fitting if poss) 43. VX Boyd (MK fitting) 44. John Boy 45. Jaz Woodward 46. Ian Roberts 47. D4nnyk 48. rickyzero 49. cressey 50. YorB (with fitting, & as per PMs - black piping, please) 51. AMOSS 52. Silent Steve (with fitting, anywhere but Milton Keynes) 53. CT 54. neilchills (with MK fitting) 55. Kev S 56. Stigg10 (with MK fitting) 57. Chubbychiper 58. V220DR 59. Pazuzu 60. Dw1 (with MK fitting) 61. L0rdMike (with MK fitting) 62. Leevx220 (with MK fitting )

[fezzasus]

Is the progress as stated above still accurate, or are we any nearer me

It's come on a bit but there have been a couple of cases of the heater leaking so I've halted production until I can test for it. I think I've got a solution though

http://db.tt/CM96z2ou

You can see air coming from the top of the heater here, at the top and 2/3 of the way down. I will now use this technique to test all heaters that go out

[Yellow_or_black?]