207 replies to this topic

[VXBONE]

checked my v5 2006 vxt stationary db 92 engine speed 4125 dive by db 75

[ghand]

So it gets better SVA limit 101 Motor sport limit for road use is 98 at night and 100 day time Test was not done correctly (open space ,no obstructions) And to top it all they cant tell you what it was as standard My Lord (but it will not get that far,just the letter)

[techieboy]

Forget about the SVA limits. Forget about motorsport limits. Forget about worthless letters.

If the car is louder than the standard car, as measured for it's type approval, because you've modified it, you're breaking the rules and run the risk of a prosecution. What are the chances of that happening? Very slim if you don't draw any attention to yourself but it's a possibility all the same and one you accept if you're prepared to modify the car. Argue about it in front of judge if you've got the money to p!ss up the wall, by all means.

Argue about it with the policeman at the side of the road as well, if you want. Even if he buys your argument under Construction & Use, he may still give you a Section 59 just because in his "opinion" your car is causing offence/nuisance to others.

[ianrm]

Whilst I whole heartedly agree that this is a complete waste of Taxpayers money and your car is probably not half as loud as some of the Chav mobiles about I doubt there is anything you can do, It may sound a bit of a defeatist attitude but I can't see how you will win. As others said, easy pickings. An old lady goes down to the shops in her car once a week passes a speed camera at 34 mph and gets a fine and points. An uninsured driver with no MOT or Tax, in a stolen car,drunk and high on drugs does the same at 30mph and gets away with it.

[Pidgeon]

And while we're having an outbreak of good sense...... My MIL lives in the Yorkshire Dales. Noise pollution, mainly from aftermarket exhausts (predominantly bikes) is a big issue for her. She will be among the many who welcome enforcement of the laws and consider it an excellent use of their taxation.

[JG]

Stage 2 supercharged with 200cell milltek cat and bb, sounds no louder than the standard car, at 4500 no load revs. There's the answer

[ghand]

Forget about the SVA limits. Forget about motorsport limits. Forget about worthless letters.

If the car is louder than the standard car, as measured for it's type approval, because you've modified it, you're breaking the rules and run the risk of a prosecution. What are the chances of that happening? Very slim if you don't draw any attention to yourself but it's a possibility all the same and one you accept if you're prepared to modify the car. Argue about it in front of judge if you've got the money to p!ss up the wall, by all means.

Argue about it with the policeman at the side of the road as well, if you want. Even if he buys your argument under Construction & Use, he may still give you a Section 59 just because in his "opinion" your car is causing offence/nuisance to others.

Totaly agree with all you say

But you dont get it

Twice I have been through this and my mate who is a cop and does this day in day out told me what to put in a letter and it went no further.He says if you have some sort of case the bloke at the desk will "normally" not bother with it as a court case takes up time,

We will have to differ on this one,but all I can say it worked for me.

I would not accept any ticket without first trying to have it stopped,what have you got to loose as you can just plead guilty before a court date if you have no joy.

My "worthless" letter saved me £60 and points

If your happy to pay up thats fine.

Edited by ghand, 21 February 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[TazN]

The thread on pepipoo doesnt read to well However I'm inclined to agree with ghand on this one. I can see it as a very real possibility that it would simply be discarded. It's not even something that will result in points so is it worth them putting it through for a court case? However I'm ofc saying that without being the one that 'may' end up in court. Anyway lets see how it goes when you go down and what they say/explain. It's something when you have to resort to forums and wait for an 'expert' to tell you if your breaking the law/guidance. Not well atm so apologies if this is obvious but have they given the fpn for breaking the law with exhaust louder than oem or breaking a guidance of the exhaust is abit too loud sir?

[ghand]

The thread on pepipoo doesnt read to well
However I'm inclined to agree with ghand on this one. I can see it as a very real possibility that it would simply be discarded. It's not even something that will result in points so is it worth them putting it through for a court case? However I'm ofc saying that without being the one that 'may' end up in court.

Anyway lets see how it goes when you go down and what they say/explain. It's something when you have to resort to forums and wait for an 'expert' to tell you if your breaking the law/guidance.

Not well atm so apologies if this is obvious but have they given the fpn for breaking the law with exhaust louder than oem or breaking a guidance of the exhaust is abit too loud sir?

Its all about what you say in your defence,I put that I had a witness(well may be not) and could they prove without any reasanable dout what I had done,my cop mate told me what to put.
In this case you just fill a letter with tech bull and say you can prove its within the limits(you cant so what)you have the manufacturing Db data sheets and your own test results and they need an independant re test before you will accept the fine or a court hearing.
Will they bother for £30 Mmmm I dout it very much
IF they do you just go and pay the fine,no big deal.

Edited by ghand, 21 February 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[Silent Steve]

As others said, easy pickings. An old lady goes down to the shops in her car once a week passes a speed camera at 34 mph and gets a fine and points. An uninsured driver with no MOT or Tax, in a stolen car,drunk and high on drugs does the same at 30mph and gets away with it.

We have a real issue with drunk, untaxed, stolen-car driving, doped-out, speeding old ladies in our area. It needs to be stopped.
If they start fitting De-Cat Larinis to their Nissan Micras and frightening schoolchildren with their high speed, full-chat sprints, then I for one wholeheartedly support arresting the cantankerous old b&stards.

[ghand]

As others said, easy pickings. An old lady goes down to the shops in her car once a week passes a speed camera at 34 mph and gets a fine and points. An uninsured driver with no MOT or Tax, in a stolen car,drunk and high on drugs does the same at 30mph and gets away with it.

We have a real issue with drunk, untaxed, stolen-car driving, doped-out, speeding old ladies in our area. It needs to be stopped.
If they start fitting De-Cat Larinis to their Nissan Micras and frightening schoolchildren with their high speed, full-chat sprints, then I for one wholeheartedly support arresting the cantankerous old b&stards.

you will be old one day :lol:And may be cantankerous,not sure about the micra.

[davemate]

I should get a chance tomorrow thursday to go down to the police station and have a chat with them. I will ask about IVA/SVA regs and about the specif reasons for the fine "excessive exhaust noise" was all that the fine stated. I will also find out about the possible further ramifications that I could come under and I will keep this thread updated. If is clear that there is quite a grey area in the law (I know the construction regs) but what frustrates me is some cars can and some cars cant. It also appears that there is no data on idle speeds for a 2003 VX220 N/A, which means that it is difficult to prove the construction regs. meh.

[oblomov]

I've not read the whole thread in case this has been mentioned, but another issue will be how your exhaust looks. I've got a second hand aftermarket stainless backbox on my Clio 172 which I got cheap when looking to renew the existing backbox. It was OK for a week or so, but now it's so chavtastic it makes my ears bleed under hard accelleration and I was going to change it anyway. But, even if I try not draw attention to it, I've still got a very obvious oval box hanging down that's as big as a crack whore's vagina, and any plod who is following is likely to stop me as it's a cert that I'm above the limit. Also what Suffolk Police have today, other forces across the UK will have tomorrow.

[ghand]

I should get a chance tomorrow thursday to go down to the police station and have a chat with them. I will ask about IVA/SVA regs and about the specif reasons for the fine "excessive exhaust noise" was all that the fine stated. I will also find out about the possible further ramifications that I could come under and I will keep this thread updated.

If is clear that there is quite a grey area in the law (I know the construction regs) but what frustrates me is some cars can and some cars cant. It also appears that there is no data on idle speeds for a 2003 VX220 N/A, which means that it is difficult to prove the construction regs.

meh.

Make it clear from the start that you intend to fight it.

They will try to fob you off .

Don't forget to mention the road side test had reflected noise from obstructions,passing cars and wind noise.So was not accurate

Ask did they zero the meter for ambiant noise and can you see the calibration certificate as the value they got differs from the one you have.

Oh and try not to punch any of them

Good luck.

PS I did not go to see them,was told by an officer to just send in a letter and that was the end of it.

[ghand]

Pm

[Tfp]

If this is new kit for the police, chances are they are going to follow it through, how else are they going to test their shiny new toy and the new legislation that will back it up. The magistrate will be new to it too. Front office staff down your local station will simply say it's up to you if you decide to plead not guilty and have your day in court, it's not up to them to try and justify why the officer issued the ticket. They are often civilian staff behind the counter who may know little about what the traffic officers are up to, so may not be much help to you. I can understand everyone saying you should fight this, but as I've already said, think hard about whether you really want this to go to court, they can often be quite frustrating places when you are trying to get your point across, and the magistrate may have no idea what you are going on about, they then have to make a decision when they may not really know much about cars and the exhausts fitted to something like a VX. I agree this new law may be worth testing, but you should take some expert legal advice first.

[ghand]

Your letter gets sent to " the appropriate department for consideration of process by summons to court" he says reading from his reply from such a letter. Not the guy on the desk They then send you a acknowledgement receipt for a court hearing IF they decide to take the case,It is looked at and only the cut and dry cases go to court,Mine went on the iffy pile :LOL; as may this You then have 10 days to pay from that date and your request is withdrawn. Oh and I agree, I would not go to court for the sake of £30 but I would try it on first, worked for me last time

Edited by ghand, 22 February 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[ghand]

If this is new kit for the police, chances are they are going to follow it through, how else are they going to test their shiny new toy and the new legislation that will back it up.

The magistrate will be new to it too.

Front office staff down your local station will simply say it's up to you if you decide to plead not guilty and have your day in court, it's not up to them to try and justify why the officer issued the ticket. They are often civilian staff behind the counter who may know little about what the traffic officers are up to, so may not be much help to you.

I can understand everyone saying you should fight this, but as I've already said, think hard about whether you really want this to go to court, they can often be quite frustrating places when you are trying to get your point across, and the magistrate may have no idea what you are going on about, they then have to make a decision when they may not really know much about cars and the exhausts fitted to something like a VX.

I agree this new law may be worth testing, but you should take some expert legal advice first.

I agree with what you say about new kit but it maybe they have been busy and have loads of kids with bean can exhausts on popular cars

All done with no problem,

Then some guy turns up with all sorts of facts and db readings and demanding re tests due to errors on a car they know nothing about,they may just bin it and go for the easy pickings,with a bit of luck

If not,pay up the £30.and move county

[martylemoo]

Interesting that they are trying to get you on 54:-

Silencers

54.—(1) Every vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be fitted with an exhaust system including a silencer and the exhaust gases from the engine shall not escape into the atmosphere without first passing through the silencer.

(2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.

(3) Instead of complying with paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with Community Directive 77/212, 81/334, 84/372 or 84/424 or, in the case of a motor cycle other than a moped, 78/1015.

(4) In this regulation “moped” has the meaning given to it in paragraph (5) of Schedule 9


Rather than 55 which actually has the noise regs in it.

[Tfp]

If this is new kit for the police, chances are they are going to follow it through, how else are they going to test their shiny new toy and the new legislation that will back it up.

The magistrate will be new to it too.

Front office staff down your local station will simply say it's up to you if you decide to plead not guilty and have your day in court, it's not up to them to try and justify why the officer issued the ticket. They are often civilian staff behind the counter who may know little about what the traffic officers are up to, so may not be much help to you.

I can understand everyone saying you should fight this, but as I've already said, think hard about whether you really want this to go to court, they can often be quite frustrating places when you are trying to get your point across, and the magistrate may have no idea what you are going on about, they then have to make a decision when they may not really know much about cars and the exhausts fitted to something like a VX.

I agree this new law may be worth testing, but you should take some expert legal advice first.

I agree with what you say about new kit but it maybe they have been busy and have loads of kids with bean can exhausts on popular cars

All done with no problem,

Then some guy turns up with all sorts of facts and db readings and demanding re tests due to errors on a car they know nothing about,they may just bin it and go for the easy pickings,with a bit of luck

If not,pay up the £30.and move county

Hopefully a letter will sort it out.

I can understand this law being useful for the kids with super loud exhausts, something needed to be done.

I got away with a track exhaust for years on my old bandit 1200 bike, it now seems the police are getting more powers and our days of fun are limited.