118 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

Better gearing in the NA's standard gearbox and even more so in Haggi's 4.17 as well.

[SteveA]

SteveA and me did at Anglesey last year and there was nothing in it at all, him in a tubby, me in the SC.

Where the extra torque kicks in is the in-gear accelleration where the extra 110 lbft in the tubby just comes into its own.

Pity you can't be at the National this year as I should have 300bhp (which is the same as you now I think?) it would be great to see how much difference the aero makes.

[JohnTurbo]

York Raceway, 8th July. Lets roll.

[techieboy]

Techie and co: Would you be worried about tracking on a stage III base map...?

No idea, I'm afraid. Courtenay's did the external parts of the Stage 3 conversion on mine and mapped it at the same time. Was unaware that there was actually a Stage 3 base map (though it makes sense, given how many of us have done it now). I'd have said it was probably okay for most of us to track but with your driving style..........?

[ghand]

So would they let us do side by side drags down the straight at the National.Obviously late on when the track is clearing. I can Knock up some red and green lights

[haggi961]

York Raceway, 8th July. Lets roll.

Would love to but im off to the national so wont be back in time.

[JohnTurbo]

lol....I knew that date looked familiar!!

[Hark]

So would they let us do side by side drags down the straight at the National.Obviously late on when the track is clearing.

I can Knock up some red and green lights

In a straight line surely the turbo will eat it for breakfast?

As someone has already said, the turbo always will have the legs on a straight due to the extra torque, but the SC should get the power down quicker out of the bends?

[ArticMonkey]

Then again the torque of the SC is across the whole rev range where as the turbo peaks then drops off.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

SteveA and me did at Anglesey last year and there was nothing in it at all, him in a tubby, me in the SC.

Where the extra torque kicks in is the in-gear accelleration where the extra 110 lbft in the tubby just comes into its own.

Pity you can't be at the National this year as I should have 300bhp (which is the same as you now I think?) it would be great to see how much difference the aero makes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI_gB46srHs

That is the best example of an all things being equal slug out between a Tubby ans an SC. Same BHP, same tyres, same track, same conditions, same traffic and drivers of equal ability.

On a drag strip, again all being equal, the Tubby's torque will pull it through to the win. On track, the SC gets the power down earlier and smoother which is why (at Anglesey) we are evenly matched. I feel it would be a different story at a circuit with longer straights such as Snetterton 200.

[JohnTurbo]

All flavours of vx are pretty kick ass!

[jameso]

Then again the torque of the SC is across the whole rev range where as the turbo peaks then drops off.

Think ur understanding of torque is a little off - in general turbos deliver more torque and earlier but its not linear (off/on boost), and SC will deliver less torque as a whole, and even less torque across the whole of the range (because it is linear) this is why a turbo will be quicker in a straight line..... more torque and its available for more of the rev range.

HOWEVER.... because the power delivery is not linear its a bit more "uncertain" putting the power down in turbo while still turning - i remember a video of jimmy and cliffie a year or two back (when jimmy had his vxr) that perfectly illustrated this..... Mike could get on the power a lot earlier because jimmy had to beware of the boost.

If anyone has watched ROC before one of the hardest cars they have to drive on there is the XBOW because it is turbo. I watched it a couple years ago and the only car the pros span was the XBOW (turbo) - they think its planted, they apply more throttle and suddenly the boost comes, the torque appears, the rears spin and the front grips = 180

The above is why a turbo will always be faster on a straight (for a similar power/weight ratio) and why an SC is easier to drive on a track.

IMHO if we took a 300bhp turbo and a 300bhp SC and gave it to two average to reasonable drivers on track without huge straights the SC would be quicker, but if we gave it to two very good pros the turbo would be faster as a very skilled driver would do a better job of handling the boost than our reasonable drivers before them.

all imho ofc

[techieboy]

Right, that's it. I want my wheels back.

[nicollow]

IMHO if we took a 300bhp turbo and a 300bhp SC and gave it to two average to reasonable drivers on track without huge straights the SC would be quicker, but if we gave it to two very good pros the turbo would be faster as a very skilled driver would do a better job of handling the boost than our reasonable drivers before them.

Exectly right, I had a 300bhp VXT at the National a couple of years ago and was miles faster than anybody there I went passed Jimmy like he was standing still. Oh wait, that was under yellows and I got a telling off for that

[ArticMonkey]

Then again the torque of the SC is across the whole rev range where as the turbo peaks then drops off.

Think ur understanding of torque is a little off - in general turbos deliver more torque and earlier but its not linear (off/on boost), and SC will deliver less torque as a whole, and even less torque across the whole of the range (because it is linear) this is why a turbo will be quicker in a straight line..... more torque and its available for more of the rev range.

HOWEVER.... because the power delivery is not linear its a bit more "uncertain" putting the power down in turbo while still turning - i remember a video of jimmy and cliffie a year or two back (when jimmy had his vxr) that perfectly illustrated this..... Mike could get on the power a lot earlier because jimmy had to beware of the boost.

If anyone has watched ROC before one of the hardest cars they have to drive on there is the XBOW because it is turbo. I watched it a couple years ago and the only car the pros span was the XBOW (turbo) - they think its planted, they apply more throttle and suddenly the boost comes, the torque appears, the rears spin and the front grips = 180

The above is why a turbo will always be faster on a straight (for a similar power/weight ratio) and why an SC is easier to drive on a track.

IMHO if we took a 300bhp turbo and a 300bhp SC and gave it to two average to reasonable drivers on track without huge straights the SC would be quicker, but if we gave it to two very good pros the turbo would be faster as a very skilled driver would do a better job of handling the boost than our reasonable drivers before them.

all imho ofc

Seem to be correcting me alot? My comments need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I meant what you wrote just didn't have enough time to write an essay.

Anyway let's chat more about how springs don't aid roll in a car

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Then again the torque of the SC is across the whole rev range where as the turbo peaks then drops off.

Think ur understanding of torque is a little off - in general turbos deliver more torque and earlier but its not linear (off/on boost), and SC will deliver less torque as a whole, and even less torque across the whole of the range (because it is linear) this is why a turbo will be quicker in a straight line..... more torque and its available for more of the rev range.

HOWEVER.... because the power delivery is not linear its a bit more "uncertain" putting the power down in turbo while still turning - i remember a video of jimmy and cliffie a year or two back (when jimmy had his vxr) that perfectly illustrated this..... Mike could get on the power a lot earlier because jimmy had to beware of the boost.

If anyone has watched ROC before one of the hardest cars they have to drive on there is the XBOW because it is turbo. I watched it a couple years ago and the only car the pros span was the XBOW (turbo) - they think its planted, they apply more throttle and suddenly the boost comes, the torque appears, the rears spin and the front grips = 180

The above is why a turbo will always be faster on a straight (for a similar power/weight ratio) and why an SC is easier to drive on a track.

IMHO if we took a 300bhp turbo and a 300bhp SC and gave it to two average to reasonable drivers on track without huge straights the SC would be quicker, but if we gave it to two very good pros the turbo would be faster as a very skilled driver would do a better job of handling the boost than our reasonable drivers before them.

all imho ofc

That vid was Le Mans 2010 and the time Jimmy drove my car and decided he wanted the SC, the rest is history.

Have to disagree with you James, I reckon Pro's driving the two would find them evenly matched as well as the Pros would get the power down much earlier than the average drivers in both the turbo and the SC assuming all other things are equal. Watch the Anglesey vid again. When there is no traffic to complicate things, Steve is not gaining on me on the Anglesey straight and that is long enough to show up the torque difference.

What is obvious is that certain characteristics suit certain drivers.

[jameso]

Then again the torque of the SC is across the whole rev range where as the turbo peaks then drops off.

Think ur understanding of torque is a little off - in general turbos deliver more torque and earlier but its not linear (off/on boost), and SC will deliver less torque as a whole, and even less torque across the whole of the range (because it is linear) this is why a turbo will be quicker in a straight line..... more torque and its available for more of the rev range.

HOWEVER.... because the power delivery is not linear its a bit more "uncertain" putting the power down in turbo while still turning - i remember a video of jimmy and cliffie a year or two back (when jimmy had his vxr) that perfectly illustrated this..... Mike could get on the power a lot earlier because jimmy had to beware of the boost.

If anyone has watched ROC before one of the hardest cars they have to drive on there is the XBOW because it is turbo. I watched it a couple years ago and the only car the pros span was the XBOW (turbo) - they think its planted, they apply more throttle and suddenly the boost comes, the torque appears, the rears spin and the front grips = 180

The above is why a turbo will always be faster on a straight (for a similar power/weight ratio) and why an SC is easier to drive on a track.

IMHO if we took a 300bhp turbo and a 300bhp SC and gave it to two average to reasonable drivers on track without huge straights the SC would be quicker, but if we gave it to two very good pros the turbo would be faster as a very skilled driver would do a better job of handling the boost than our reasonable drivers before them.

all imho ofc

That vid was Le Mans 2010 and the time Jimmy drove my car and decided he wanted the SC, the rest is history.

Have to disagree with you James, I reckon Pro's driving the two would find them evenly matched as well as the Pros would get the power down much earlier than the average drivers in both the turbo and the SC assuming all other things are equal. Watch the Anglesey vid again. When there is no traffic to complicate things, Steve is not gaining on me on the Anglesey straight and that is long enough to show up the torque difference.

What is obvious is that certain characteristics suit certain drivers.

Yeh that's the one Mike,

Yes the lines you two take are very different!

You are a much more experienced driver than me so am sure you are right Your car looks awesome in TA trim!

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Then again the torque of the SC is across the whole rev range where as the turbo peaks then drops off.

Think ur understanding of torque is a little off - in general turbos deliver more torque and earlier but its not linear (off/on boost), and SC will deliver less torque as a whole, and even less torque across the whole of the range (because it is linear) this is why a turbo will be quicker in a straight line..... more torque and its available for more of the rev range.

HOWEVER.... because the power delivery is not linear its a bit more "uncertain" putting the power down in turbo while still turning - i remember a video of jimmy and cliffie a year or two back (when jimmy had his vxr) that perfectly illustrated this..... Mike could get on the power a lot earlier because jimmy had to beware of the boost.

If anyone has watched ROC before one of the hardest cars they have to drive on there is the XBOW because it is turbo. I watched it a couple years ago and the only car the pros span was the XBOW (turbo) - they think its planted, they apply more throttle and suddenly the boost comes, the torque appears, the rears spin and the front grips = 180

The above is why a turbo will always be faster on a straight (for a similar power/weight ratio) and why an SC is easier to drive on a track.

IMHO if we took a 300bhp turbo and a 300bhp SC and gave it to two average to reasonable drivers on track without huge straights the SC would be quicker, but if we gave it to two very good pros the turbo would be faster as a very skilled driver would do a better job of handling the boost than our reasonable drivers before them.

all imho ofc

That vid was Le Mans 2010 and the time Jimmy drove my car and decided he wanted the SC, the rest is history.

Have to disagree with you James, I reckon Pro's driving the two would find them evenly matched as well as the Pros would get the power down much earlier than the average drivers in both the turbo and the SC assuming all other things are equal. Watch the Anglesey vid again. When there is no traffic to complicate things, Steve is not gaining on me on the Anglesey straight and that is long enough to show up the torque difference.

What is obvious is that certain characteristics suit certain drivers.

Yeh that's the one Mike,

Yes the lines you two take are very different!

You are a much more experienced driver than me so am sure you are right Your car looks awesome in TA trim!

Cheers James, we are very pleased with it.

Differing lines are part driver feel and part power delivery (and sometimes just a plain cock up).

[jameso]

Cheers James, we are very pleased with it.

Differing lines are part driver feel and part power delivery (and sometimes just a plain cock up).

Makes me desperately want some sort of engine cover though

[Carlos QuinT]

260hp turbo vs 260hp supercharger