146 replies to this topic

[Ducati996Senna]

Different thoughts on this from the suppliers. Which is more efficient? The charge cooler runs a circuit of water through a radiator in the front of the car assisted by a pump. The charge cooler is positioned around the induction pipe in the engine bay. Intercooler relies on air passing through the cooling vanes which enclose the induction pipe. My thoughts are that at lower speeds the charge cooler is more efficient as there is a constant recirculation of cooler water past the induction pipe. However as the speed increases and engine temperature also increases and what you get is a constant flow of warm water being reciculated as the radiator in the front of the car cannot cool it sufficiently to be cold. The intercooler though as the car increases in speed receives a constant temperature of air through the vanes which is much cooler than the water temp in the charge cooler. Coupled with this, if the air passing through the vanes were to exit in the rear wheel arch then you would relieve the engine bay of additional heat. Certainly Colin Blower has recorded a sharp decrease in intake temperatures with a larger intercooler fitted. What are your thoughts?

[clipping_point]

The only water-cooled intercooler I've seen is Thorneys. The "charge cooler" relies on a separate water curcuit with its own pump, in Thorneys and Courtenays solutions. This means that the temperature is low.

[dude]

http://www.laminova.se/

[Gedi]

From the many disscussions we've had here on this topic, its been concluded that the standard intercooler is more than up to the job of cooling, the problem is getting the air to it. Much of the intercoolers ability to cool is already wasted, so making it bigger wouldn't really help things. If you wanted to go down the intercooler route, it would be better to modify the bodywork to direct more air through it. The charge cooler obviously doesn't need this lack of air and can be cooled in more effective ways.

[Jase_MK]

The intercooler though as the car increases in speed receives a constant temperature of air through the vanes which is much cooler than the water temp in the charge cooler.

Don't forget that water is a much better conductor of heat than air and so cools better even at warmer temperatures than air. So if the water is a few degrees warmer than the air would be, it doesn't mean it becomes the lesser of the two coolants.

Stand naked in a 20 degree room and you'd be pretty comfortable. Cover yourself in 25 degree water and you'd soon start feeling chilly...

[Thorney]

The GT car has had a good drop in intake temps because they are running almost 2bar of pressure so the (hybrid) turbo is running very hot. Standard intercooler would need help cooling that down especially at race speeds (where the car spends a lot of its time in 'dirty' air drafting other cars). The GT also has massive (and I mean massive) extra venting - whole rear of car is drilled out with extra ducting all over the place to get airflow into the engine bay; in these circumstances a larger intercooler would work well, for a road car there is little point. GT rules also prevent Colin from using a CC anyway.

[Thorney]

The way I describe CC'ing to people is simple. Blow on your finger. Now stick yer finger in yer gob, wet it, then blow on it again - which feels cooler - thats charge cooling

[minime]

as far as i am aware the larger regal/eds intercooler benefits from a vent in the wheel arch.. i shall try and find some info on it!

[Jase_MK]

The way I describe CC'ing to people is simple. Blow on your finger. Now stick yer finger in yer gob, wet it, then blow on it again - which feels cooler - thats charge cooling

I prefer the standing naked in a room example

[Thorney]

Its kinda hard to demonstrate that in a pub though isn't it

[chris]

I have installed on my VXT, EDS intercooler in place of OEM intercooler. The kit does not fit perfectly and I should modify fixation pads ... Installation of perforated plate in wheel arch is a little bit shitty ... There is no optimisation of air pass between engine and intercooler .. After this modification, I did not notice any improvement in engine high revolution range (5500 to 6500 rpm) as shown on EDS power curve phase 2 ... Moreover, REGAL does not put any information or advice in his package : only intercooler and perforated plate and do it yourself ... So, as conclusion I hope to optimize a little bit the situation and get some bhp, but I am sure to be far of the results annouced by EDS/REGAL Regards Chris

[mbes2]

Very old post... This Vs has been on going for a long while.

 

Hot day yesterday, out in the VX, running MMG stg4 large intercooler, having a good old blast for long periods, didn't see anything over 37c on the scangauge.

 

I plan to take more reading on track on the 11th.

 

2013 - Been missing the VX weather for sure!

 

 

[rob999]

I think track temps will be a better test.

[mbes2]

sure will be 

[techieboy]

Log it properly Mark, along with some other engine data and not just a handful of instantaneous readings which mean nothing in isolation.

[mbes2]

Matt, I've been trying to work out how to capture the data to a device.

 

So far, apart from the scan gauge, found this http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1423.l2649

 

Plus a few in / out temp meters.

 

Any other ideas welcome.

 

Appz on a HTC but a real probe in the intake somewhere would be best i think 

[techieboy]

I'd stick with what you can get over the OBD2 port, to start with. Grab yourself a cheapo Bluetooth OBD2 interface (slightly more expensive wifi OBD2 interfaces required for iCraps) from eBay as you've got an Android phone and install the Torque app on your phone (if you've got a suitable mount you could even use it for video and overlay the "gauges"). Then just log as many ECU parameters as you want/need.

 

I think with the VXT ECU, you've got IAT1 (effectively ambient air temp, I guess) and IAT2 (post cooler). So log those along with OBD speed, rpm, ignition advance, throttle position, and maybe engine load. Not sure whether there is a boost reading as such, so might be a case of logging MAF and/or MAP readings as well and calculating a boost reading that we'd all recognise. Nev or Sizten will probably know what's what in there and what kind of conversion, if any, is needed.

 

Basically, just log as much data as you can and then you can pick and choose what you actually want to chart and compare later and see what's really happening (or what's really happening as far as the ECU is concerned). You should be able to see all the ignition changes as temperatures rise or fall as the ECU does it's balancing act over time, as opposed to an anecdotal, I saw 40C at one point and not really being sure what was happening as a whole beforehand.

 

Can send you my bluetooth interface if you can't get hold of another, before needed.

 

Once you start bolting on additional sensors, you need a proper external data logger to capture those readings and there's no really cheap options there. Hopefully, somebody will come up with a nice cheap logger based on a RaspberryPi at some point, that doesn't need a degree in pure mathematics, advanced C programming skills and the soldering ability of a veteran Shenzen factory worker.

[mbes2]

Thanks, ordered and installed Torque Pro to my phone.

 

Hopefully will capture some data

[astravxr]

Do you fancy making a video showing your stage 4 performance from 0 - 1** and 30 - 100 and ill do the same

[mbes2]

why ? 

 

This is only to capture track temp stats