146 replies to this topic

[NDT]

Has anyone measured the coolant temp pre and post chargecooler? (yes I'll go and use the search function now)

Part of the balance with the chargecooler is how much cooling is actually required vs the inertia in the the coolant system.

[NDT]

 

 

The way I describe CC'ing to people is simple. Blow on your finger. Now stick yer finger in yer gob, wet it, then blow on it again - which feels cooler - thats charge cooling

 
Sorry to be 9 years late correcting this, but that's cobblers.
That's not charge cooling, that's cooling through evaporation - in other words like having an intercooler with a water spray on the outside.

I doubt anyone listened at the time either dude

 

I can't help being an engineering pedant

[mbes2]

  Great day at brands...... 

 

Good some really good data captured!    its very detailed!

 

Now what do I do with it lol 

 

Its a good read! 

 

Edited by mbes2, 11 June 2013 - 09:33 PM.

[JohnTurbo]

import to excel, make graphs :-)

 

I'm keen to see it!

[mbes2]

import to excel, make graphs :-)

 

I'm keen to see it!

 

How the feck do I do that!! 

 

Im a IT support, not Admin! 

 

Talk to me John!

[mbes2]

Just found this, which is a good read .... http://www.vx220.org...ch-one-and-why/

 

Checking this data, I saw 30psi boost! wtf lol 

 

Im running stage 4 MMG intercooler... And today, I wasnt hanging about! 

 

So hopefully some good output, once I work out what /how to convert it to a chart of some kind..

 

my first attempt 

[JohnTurbo]

Email it to me?

[NDT]

The intercooler vs chargecooler debate fascinates me.

If anyone's done any efficiency calculations I'd be interested?

Otherwise as an (ex) engineer I'm probably still capable of working it out by myself if presented with enough data.

 

The interesting thing is mass flow of air through the RHS turbo ear and through the intercooler and the mass flow of air through the chargecooler rad at the front.

Haven't seen any evidence on here of anyone measuring that?

 

Without wanting to be critical I find it interesting that there's lots of talk about IC and CC efficiency when what people mean is effectiveness. Without knowing the mass flow of the ultimate cooling medium you can't work out efficiency and you can't optimise effectiveness.

[JohnTurbo]

 

A bit hot, not too bad. You will be getting some retard over 50-55 degrees from what i've heard.

Lots of boost...basically 2 bar peak.

 

 

[JohnTurbo]

FYI -  My compound cooled sytem ran 20PSI max boost, and 48degrees max IAT around Oulton. (Graph in that thread)

 

- Obviously at 2/3 of the boost there is a lot less heat to shed.

[VXT Tim]

So temps high but ecu never backed off boost.

 

Hotter than i would've expected but that's only based on talk (bigging up) on here.

[techieboy]

Probably need the ignition charted as well, as that's what the ECU will have backed off when/if the heat got too much.

[mbes2]

Thanks John.

 

I felt no lack of boost or power with the car, nice and quick

 

Is this the real first captured data from a track session with a intercooler ? 

 

 

Could someone now do this with a charge cooler setup ?

[rob999]

Just wait for a slightly warmer day Mark Good data though as a start point.

[VXT Tim]

The answer for the IC

[JohnTurbo]

As mentioned mark I did it on my intercooled and chargecooled setup....but what we need is a stage 4 car with a pa cc really. Good on you for doing it...ive felt a lack of willingness to pony up with a log. The IC is better than I expected in all honesty. Sadly ignition adv isnt in the logs.

[Winstar]

The intercooler vs chargecooler debate fascinates me. If anyone's done any efficiency calculations I'd be interested? Otherwise as an (ex) engineer I'm probably still capable of working it out by myself if presented with enough data.   The interesting thing is mass flow of air through the RHS turbo ear and through the intercooler and the mass flow of air through the chargecooler rad at the front. Haven't seen any evidence on here of anyone measuring that?   Without wanting to be critical I find it interesting that there's lots of talk about IC and CC efficiency when what people mean is effectiveness. Without knowing the mass flow of the ultimate cooling medium you can't work out efficiency and you can't optimise effectiveness.

LMAO I spent years working designing vehicle thermal management systems (VTMS) and I've given up commenting on this as there's just no point as everyone has an opinion none based on fact or real test data (even those selling the stuff) As for mass low rate then my CFD model of a VX with ears but no blockage for the IC predicts at 45m/s (~100mph) there is just enough flow to cool the charge for 300 bhp. You'll find efficiency and effectiveness are generally used interchangeably when people talk about after coolers even at oem level.

[siztenboots]

if you have an input ear of cross-section X , then do you also need an exit route of size X to match , or is a pressure gradient more important ?

[cnrandall]

 

The intercooler vs chargecooler debate fascinates me. If anyone's done any efficiency calculations I'd be interested? Otherwise as an (ex) engineer I'm probably still capable of working it out by myself if presented with enough data.   The interesting thing is mass flow of air through the RHS turbo ear and through the intercooler and the mass flow of air through the chargecooler rad at the front. Haven't seen any evidence on here of anyone measuring that?   Without wanting to be critical I find it interesting that there's lots of talk about IC and CC efficiency when what people mean is effectiveness. Without knowing the mass flow of the ultimate cooling medium you can't work out efficiency and you can't optimise effectiveness.

LMAO I spent years working designing vehicle thermal management systems (VTMS) and I've given up commenting on this as there's just no point as everyone has an opinion none based on fact or real test data (even those selling the stuff) As for mass low rate then my CFD model of a VX with ears but no blockage for the IC predicts at 45m/s (~100mph) there is just enough flow to cool the charge for 300 bhp. You'll find efficiency and effectiveness are generally used interchangeably when people talk about after coolers even at oem level.

 

 

With thanks to Winstar my charge intake temps have dropped from nearly 100degrees constant to 45 peak and astonishingly quick recovery rates.

[NDT]

 

The intercooler vs chargecooler debate fascinates me. If anyone's done any efficiency calculations I'd be interested? Otherwise as an (ex) engineer I'm probably still capable of working it out by myself if presented with enough data.   The interesting thing is mass flow of air through the RHS turbo ear and through the intercooler and the mass flow of air through the chargecooler rad at the front. Haven't seen any evidence on here of anyone measuring that?   Without wanting to be critical I find it interesting that there's lots of talk about IC and CC efficiency when what people mean is effectiveness. Without knowing the mass flow of the ultimate cooling medium you can't work out efficiency and you can't optimise effectiveness.

LMAO I spent years working designing vehicle thermal management systems (VTMS) and I've given up commenting on this as there's just no point as everyone has an opinion none based on fact or real test data (even those selling the stuff) As for mass low rate then my CFD model of a VX with ears but no blockage for the IC predicts at 45m/s (~100mph) there is just enough flow to cool the charge for 300 bhp. You'll find efficiency and effectiveness are generally used interchangeably when people talk about after coolers even at oem level.

 

That's interesting thanks.

I used to be in auto engineering too (engine design / FEA then ran an engineering consultancy for a few years).

I assume the intercooler drag would make a big difference to the mass air flow through the duct and through the intercooler - do you have a view?