67 replies to this topic

[The Batman]

Ding.

Says the magpie

[LY_Scott]

Shiny Shiny!

[techieboy]

Ding.

Says the magpie

Exactly. I looked at them when Geary first started listing them years ago and decided I'd never get enough benefit from them to justify the cost. Granted, at the time, they didn't have a version that handled the standard brakes, which would have meant upgrading to four pots on the front and moving the two pots to the rear but it all shaped up to be a £3k+ job to do the front and rear. I'd have got (and probably did) get more value from doing ten track/tuition days.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I'm a bit surprised that these Gt hubs are now becoming such a hot topic, as I thought it was pretty common knowledge that you fcuk-up the VX's (read: Lotus chassis) wishbone geometry when you go to low on the car.
It's not that Eliseparts/Eliseshop, Nitron or whoever makes these else invented something new or magical...

Ding.

Reason I'm so keen to discuss these now is that I've only really looked at the Nitron option before and ruled them out due to price (£££££). These seem far more reasonably priced and if we're at the development point (as VX option isn't yet specified) then why not try and get them specified to what we want....?

Knock up a set that have the standard brake mounts for instance? That would make them more accessible or even make them with a number of adapters to make them fit various brake setups.....

I've done loads to my chassis and think it handles better than any VX but if there's ways of improving this further that I can afford I'd rather spend my money on that than chasing power.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Plus I want to stop munching cv boots to attain the ride heights I like on track

[Scuffers]

Plus I want to stop munching cv boots to attain the ride heights I like on track

you do realise the hight of the CV joint relatively does not change don't you?

it's in the middle of the wheel, no matter what upright you use... think about it.

[Crabash]

Plus I want to stop munching cv boots to attain the ride heights I like on track

you do realise the hight of the CV joint relatively does not change don't you?

it's in the middle of the wheel, no matter what upright you use... think about it.

Tilting the engine and gearbox around the centre line of the gearbox can sometimes help with that if you have the room behind the bulkhead (bonus lower and further forward CoG)
As for the lowered hubs, I agree with most, only for a race car trying to take advantage of aero. All unequal length wishbones do the same not just the vx/elise, that is why they are unequal.

[Crabash]

Just to clarify the engine tilting is theoretical as some engines will encounter problems such as tilting away from exhaust side, where you might want the oil to pool in the head/cam housing.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Plus I want to stop munching cv boots to attain the ride heights I like on track

you do realise the hight of the CV joint relatively does not change don't you?

it's in the middle of the wheel, no matter what upright you use... think about it.

I just run silly camber to achieve more grip. If I can be better handling via a better setup then I can put my camber to a less antisocial setting.

What about my comments concerning hubs with mounting points for various brake combos...? Do you think that could work?

[Scuffers]

Plus I want to stop munching cv boots to attain the ride heights I like on track

you do realise the hight of the CV joint relatively does not change don't you?

it's in the middle of the wheel, no matter what upright you use... think about it.

Tilting the engine and gearbox around the centre line of the gearbox can sometimes help with that if you have the room behind the bulkhead (bonus lower and further forward CoG)
As for the lowered hubs, I agree with most, only for a race car trying to take advantage of aero. All unequal length wishbones do the same not just the vx/elise, that is why they are unequal.

Eh?

with respect, this is getting scary, the amount of miss-understanding here is epic.

some notes:

1) lowereing a car is done for more than just aero reasons, in fact with the VX Aero is the nice side effect, not the main benifit.
2) CV joints are in the middle of the wheel, makes no odds what uprights you have to what the hight difference between the gearbox and CV will be, that's defined by the ride hight (unless you move the gearbox in the chassis).
3) the reason these hubs were made was to correct the roll centre issue that lowering the car causes.

[Scuffers]

What about my comments concerning hubs with mounting points for various brake combos...? Do you think that could work?

not sure what your comment on brakes was getting at?

GT uprights are avaliable with either radial or lug mount, so you can use std calipers (lug) or aftermarket radials.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

What about my comments concerning hubs with mounting points for various brake combos...? Do you think that could work?

not sure what your comment on brakes was getting at?

GT uprights are avaliable with either radial or lug mount, so you can use std calipers (lug) or aftermarket radials.

Ahh ok, so is a viable VX setuP readily available as I wasn't aware that it was and just suggesting they be designed with the option to run standard brakes. Thought you'd sell more this way.

If someone ran with standard 2-pot fronts on the rear would these just bolt directly to one of the EP hubs?

Also what's the issue with the rear toe links...? Is it that standards rub and some aftermarket kits won't....? Or is it a totally different design? I'm already on a rose jointed solution so am hoping this will just bolt on directly....

Sorry for all the questions but just trying to get a better understanding of what's available....

[smiley]

with respect, this is getting scary, the amount of miss-understanding here is epic.

Welcome to .org.
We're willing to learn though.

[Scuffers]

If someone ran with standard 2-pot fronts on the rear would these just bolt directly to one of the EP hubs?

essentially, yes (although depending on the disk/caliper, some spacing may be requied)

Also what's the issue with the rear toe links...? Is it that standards rub and some aftermarket kits won't....? Or is it a totally different design? I'm already on a rose jointed solution so am hoping this will just bolt on directly....

std ones have ball joints, GT uprights only work with rod ended links.

also, depending on who's kit it is, the conicals may prove interesing hight wise....

[Crabash]

I didn't missunderstand anything 1. What I mean is not worth it for other than a race car as it would not be usable on the roads if you took advantage of them. 2. Tilting the engine/gearbox can move the inner CV joint up without lifting the engine/gearbox in relation to the chassis. 3. Never said it wasn't.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

If someone ran with standard 2-pot fronts on the rear would these just bolt directly to one of the EP hubs?

essentially, yes (although depending on the disk/caliper, some spacing may be requied)

Also what's the issue with the rear toe links...? Is it that standards rub and some aftermarket kits won't....? Or is it a totally different design? I'm already on a rose jointed solution so am hoping this will just bolt on directly....

std ones have ball joints, GT uprights only work with rod ended links.

also, depending on who's kit it is, the conicals may prove interesing hight wise....

I've got the Nitron solution here and don't want to take it off if I can help it....
Does make this upgrade slightly more viable too if I don't have to fork out for new toe links....

If we're looking to purchase uprights etc do you have parts developed yet for the VX or is this awaiting release...?

[techieboy]

do you have parts developed yet for the VX or is this awaiting release...?

Surely, it doesn't need developing, S2 uprights are the same as VX uprights as are S2 Toyota wishbones? You need to decide which option of the three(?) versions Elise-parts offer you want, the standard ride height, the -16mm or the -40mm versions. Then just a case of fitting a VX 5 hole hub and not the 4 hole Lotus version, unless you want to change your wheels and brake discs for 4 hole versions. Only other choice is which caliper mounting (the 2/4-pots on the rear or original Brembo) option you want.

Just need to check whether the outer joint on your Nitron toe-links is compatible and replace if necessary.

[siztenboots]

it does sound like a shit load of hassle and money for just a couple of extra mph in a corner apex

[Scuffers]

it does sound like a sh*t load of hassle and money for just a couple of extra mph in a corner apex

thats somewhat understating it

in Mikes case, I was some 15-18mph faster at turn in, rising to 20+ at exit.

equates to 10 sec's a lap....

and un-bolting an upright, bolting a new one back in is hardly a sh*t load of hassle as you put it...

Edited by Scuffers, 27 September 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

it does sound like a sh*t load of hassle and money for just a couple of extra mph in a corner apex

thats somewhat understating it

in Mikes case, I was some 15-18mph faster at turn in, rising to 20+ at exit.

equates to 10 sec's a lap....

and un-bolting an upright, bolting a new one back in is hardly a sh*t load of hassle as you put it...

Lets face it though that won't find me 10 seconds around Snett. Jamie's more of a similar level driver to Mike and myself so comparisons to his laps would be more appropriate! No offence intended to anyone here but comparing Mike's time in his car to YOUR time in Jamie's car isn't fair. It would be interesting to see your times in Mike's car or my times in Jamie's car (see what I did there ).

I've always chased chassis mods ahead of power and this seems to make sense for my car but I'm not daft enough to think it's worth 10 seconds Still interested to find out what it IS worth though!!