984 replies to this topic

[Aerodynamic]

No one have have experience in retrimming the dash board?

[Aerodynamic]

Today we are again looking over the Electric, and we try to make the starter relay work. When we had the key turn to drive more/ignition mode on we found out we didn´t have any switched over ignition (15) Fuse 8, but the fan worked. But when we have the key in radio mode the start motor ran. How can start relay only work in in radio mode but not in drive mode? BR, Per

[vocky]

FB8 should be permanent positive (30)

 http://www.speedster...ibution - 1.pdf

 

First position of the vx220 ignition switch is not connected to anything, second position should power up dash etc and enable the starter relay to be energised via the start button. Obviously the third position is not used either as the vx220 has a starter button instead.

 

FB7 etc are (15)

 

http://www.speedster...nd charging.pdf

 

*wiper motor and heater blower are 15A

Edited by vocky, 31 July 2014 - 04:32 PM.

[Aerodynamic]

Yes true, but if this is not the case, what can be wrong? I took apart the ignition switch on the left side and assembled it again, but I can not see I have assemled it faulty. But either I have assembled in the wrong way or something else have happend, something is worn or maybe corroded or something. So we couldn´t start the Engine today either :-( this was one of the reason the other one was the fuel pump relay couldn´t activate, we could force it but not make the ECU to. BR, Per

[Aerodynamic]

This is how the ignition switch look like. Is there something missing. Maybe I have to buy a new one.



BR, Per

[Arno]

I guess you also need to check what/if power is received by the Honda ECU if you turn the key.

 

Constant/battery 12V is normally applied to ECU pin E7 through the main relay coil (this also functions as the power feed to keep learned values in the ECU alive)

 

The normal sequence of events to start the engine is:

 

- Switched 12V/ignition is applied to the ECU from the ignition key via pin E9

 

- The ECU now powers up/initializes it's first stage and pulls pin E7 (see above) to ground.

 

- Because E7 is connected to the main relay coil and the other side of the coil has a +12V constant power this engages the relay and as a result applies main power to the system (eg. ECU pins A2+A3, lambda sensor relay(s), etc.) so it can get fully operational and engage all the output drivers (eg. injectors, ignition, etc.).

 

- If the built-in ECU immobiliser is disabled (via K-pro) or bypassed (via external swap-box) then it will now pull E1 to ground to engage the fuel pump relay for 2 seconds. If the immobiliser is not diabled this will/may not happen.

 

Now it's ready to go and if you engage the starter motor (or push the car ) it should start the engine.

 

Bye, Arno.

[Aerodynamic]

Hi Arno.
Do you think it could be it´s nothing wrong with the ignition switch or should I check what you wrote above besides the ignition switch?

The Speedster ignition switch is the same as used in other Opel models I supose?

Anyway, this is how the Electric looks like today.

Main relay, starter relay and fuel pump relay will used the std Speedster relays, thats why there are red crosses over this on the honda side.
There is nothing connected to pin 13 (constant) Power.



BR, Per

[Arno]

Ignition switch could be faulty. It's directly from an Opel Corsa (B or C), so not that hard to come by. The whole upper steering column is directly from a Corsa anyway

 

To see if there's a problem with the ignition switch you could check the Speedster schematics and measure on the back of the ignition switch to see if the correct pins/wires are powered as you turn the key.

 

As far as connection to the Honda ECU goes the wiring diagram seems fine. As long as you have a constant +12V on blue plug (X2) pin 12 (to ECU pin E7) then the Honda ECU should be happy.

 

The Honda ECU (unlike the Opel/GM one) does not use a separate 'memory/RAM' +12V connection (pin 13 on X3/Black) but (ab)uses the main ECU/EFI relay connection to 'steal' a very small current (a few mA's ) to keep the data in RAM on the ECU alive (eg. idle learned values, fuel trims, etc.) and not trigger the relay.

 

It actively grounds this pin to activate/trigger the main ECU/EFI relay coil and then looks for it's 12V power to the main ECU A2/A3 pins.

 

In a Civic the ECU/EFI relay coil is connected to the battery, so there's 12V all the time there.

 

it should still work without constant 12V on E7, but it will lose it's learned values every time you turn off the car which can be annoying as a (re)start then takes longer and the idle can be all over the place for the first few minutes.

 

If the ignition switch looks OK when you measure the connections then I guess you'll just have to check on the blue and black connectors to see if you get the correct power there for each turn of the key.

 

Sounds like you are very close. Just need to make sure everything is getting the proper signals/power and grounds and it should 'go'..

 

Bye, Arno.

[Arno]

Oh.. BTW.. If there happens to be no constant +12V on the blue plug (X2) pin 12 then you could add a high ohm value resistor to (X3/Black) pin 13 and some diodes to attach both (X2/blue) pin 12 and (X3/Black) pin 13 to the Honda ECU pin E7 so as a result it gets a constant 12V from pin 13 but does not short circuit or feed back power to pin 12 when the ECU does pull it's E7 to ground.

 

May not be needed at all.. Just in case...

 

Bye, Arno.

[Aerodynamic]

Hi again. Thank you very much Arno. I will discuss what you wrote with my friend
who will help me translate this electrial into normal language :-)

Yesterday I was trying to make my ignition switch to work again and it looks so easy but it didn´t worked,
anyway I switched position of the 2 tinplates and then it worked as normal again.



BR, Per

[Aerodynamic]

So the last days I´ve been working with wiring for my lambda sensor and also 3 external analog sensors. When this was done I put the battery back and was thinking of adjusting the fuel pressure by bridging the fuel pump relay. The thing is I don´t even have and Power to the relay (30. I checked all the fuses and they were OK and had Power to them when I had driver mode on the ignition. I pressed down the cut of switch to make sure this wasn´t the problem. Can it be the imobilisor that is stopping the Power. Ho does this work when I don´t have therear clam and front clam on? BR, Per

[Arno]

The VX/Speedster has no external immobiliser that cuts the fuel or ignition circuits.

 

That is.. If the car still has the original META99T alarm that was there from the factory as it's not connected to the fuel pump and/or starter motor. If a different alarm has been installed in the past then it may have been extended to cut fuel and starter unless unlocked.

 

The only original immobiliser circuit is inside the ECU which stops the engine running, but usually allows it to start for a few seconds.

 

The built-in Honda ECU immobiliser can be disabled when a K-pro is installed via the Kmanager software or with an external box that fools a standard, unmodified,  ECU into thinking that the system is OK.

 

However.. Looking at the Speedster/VX wiring diagram it looks like relay K18 (ECU relay) must be powered up/engaged for it to provide 12V to the fuel pump relay.

 

http://www.speedster...e Z22SE - 1.pdf

 

Switched 12V output from K18 to 1128 feeds to the fuel cutoff switch, that feeds the fuel pump relay at 1022 and that (duh.. ) goes to the fuel pump.

 

So you'll either need to activate K18 or probably bridge that too to manually run the fuel pump and set your fuel pressure. Or just 'steal' 12V temporarily from somewhere else and put that on the connection to the fuel pump.

 

Bye, Arno.

[techieboy]

I put the battery back and was thinking of adjusting the fuel pressure by bridging the fuel pump relay.

If you do want to get the fuel pump energised and running constantly, this might help you at least "hotwire" the pump for testing (I used this method to empty the fuel tank of old fuel):-  

ok, try this   Remove these relays and connect following pins to eachother in the relay holders Relay K16 (grey one on my car) - pin 1 - Brown/Grey Relay K18 (brown one on my car) - pin 3 - Brown (the one with 2x brown wires, one small, one large)   This should get +12v to the pump, the 0v is always connected

 

use a suitable diameter wire if that was not obvious.. 3mm suggested (and attach spade connectors)

[Aerodynamic]

Hi again. So yesterday morning I bridged the main relay and then I got Power to the fuel relay so I could bridge this too and then I could adjust the fuel pressure to 3.5 bar. In the afternoon I had to do some work for my wife. But then in the evening I could go don to the garage again. Since I don´t want to wait another 3 weeks for my buddy to come by helping me I wanted to solve this my self. After fixing the ignition I knew the fuel pump relay was not right wired. I found out the fuel pump was grounded both on 85 and 86. I removed the chassie ground and connected the 87 (Brown/pink) cable on main relay to 86 on fuel pump relay. Then I asked my wife to come down to the garage and I placed her in the driver seat. (Im to coward to start new builds like this) she turn the ignition on the then pushed the start button. It STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!! I was so happy I almost cried. More then 1.5 year of working with this and finally it starts. Now I´m going to put the last things together so I can drive it a few weeks before it gets too Cold. Anyone know how to loose the starter button from the dash board? A special thanks to Vocky and Arno for all the help with the Electrics. Thank you guys and all others that have helped me. BR, Per

[Ormes]

Congratulations

[jonnyboy]

Awesome been following this from day one

[Arno]

Great news!

 

Always a nice feeling when it actually fires up when you turn the key or press the button..

 

After this it usually still takes some time to work out all the little issues and tie up any loose ends, but you have made a great step forward!

 

Bye, Arno.

[Aerodynamic]

Thanks everone. One thing I Think about, is there someway to simulate to controll the radiator fan works as it should? BR, Per

[Arno]

If you connect the wire that goes to BLUE pin 13 to ground it should activate the fan relay and the fan in turn.

 

On the K-pro/Kmanager you could also put the fan switch point to a very low temperature   (eg. 40C) so as a test it should some on pretty soon as the engine warms up.

 

Bye, Arno.

[Aerodynamic]

Thank you again very much Arno. I localised the relay and I grounded the blu Cable and the fan worked. I changed in the program the setting to 40 deg as you said but the fan never started. When I looked at the harness I saw we had connected the wrong green Cable at the Engine harness connector. I also had a error code for O2 sensor heater. A misstake in forgetting to plug in a wire. I rewired the fan and the O2 sensor and started it up again, fan worked and so did the O2 sensor. Before sorting out the Cables I want to fix my reverse light. Anyone having an idea? When this is done I will update the Electric scheme for this conversion. BR, Per