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#521 Aerodynamic

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 08:44 PM

So now I have fixed with the electric again, it took the whole weekend. Both the PWM module and the Hazard warning light is now working

and tested this time.

This evening I have also been working on my back panel behind my seats.

I will later on make cover. But how is it fixed in the lower end???

Posted Image

 

And I guess this should stay behind?

Posted Image

 

I also ordered somer 10.9 bolts and installed for my rear Toe kit.

Posted Image

 

Another thing poped up in my mind, these days the Swedish MOT is checking for error codes in through OBD connector

and I dont have any in my car, anyone having any idea if it´s a easy fix?

 

Br, Per



#522 Jocke_D

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:56 AM

So now I have fixed with the electric again, it took the whole weekend. Both the PWM module and the Hazard warning light is now working

and tested this time.

This evening I have also been working on my back panel behind my seats.

I will later on make cover. But how is it fixed in the lower end???

 

 

 

 

And I guess this should stay behind?

 

 

 

 

I also ordered somer 10.9 bolts and installed for my rear Toe kit.

 

 

 

 

Another thing poped up in my mind, these days the Swedish MOT is checking for error codes in through OBD connector

and I dont have any in my car, anyone having any idea if it´s a easy fix?

 

Br, Per

 

 

I don't know what year your car is but it is possible that you could get away with it without an OBD plug.

 

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#523 Aerodynamic

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:44 AM

Is the Speedster/vx220 having a OBD2 diagnostic plug from the beginning? Br, Per

#524 Jocke_D

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:54 AM

Is the Speedster/vx220 having a OBD2 diagnostic plug from the beginning? Br, Per

 

 

Ja, yes, jupp, si, jawohl :-)

 

It's sitting in the center of the car, right under your dash (at least mine is).



#525 Aerodynamic

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 03:13 PM



 

 

 

right hand 2 pin black plug is the coolant tank level sensor

 

What happends if this is not connected?

 

Yesterday I thought I really had to get the car going. I don´t want to loose this entire season too.

I had a 14 hour day in the garage and volla.

Posted Image

 

I mounted wheel, rear clam, charged battery, inner fenders, made a cover over my ECU, cranked my engine without spark plugs and checkd engine, fixed passanger seat and a lot of other things.

 

I had promised my eldest son (I have two sns since 6 weeks) for a while that he and me could go for a ride together and just when I was about to mount the passanger seat I couldn´t find the right bolt to fasten the seat belt. 

After looking around the garage a while I finally found 1 that fitted.

Started the motor and it started directly.  :-)

I bled the coolant system and of we go.

My son loved it and without the roof.  :-)

 

So back to the first line. I have a low coolant indicator lightning

and this is not strange at all since the connector  isn´t even plugged in. So

hw do I solve this, Just bridging the connector or do I need any resistance or anything to cheat this light?

 

Also my airbag light is lightning, could this be that I connected the battery before I connected the airbag?

How to reset this?

 

Thank you and best regards.

,Per


Edited by Aerodynamic, 21 June 2015 - 03:20 PM.


#526 Tonie Pettersson

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 10:03 AM

Also my airbag light is lightning, could this be that I connected the battery before I connected the airbag?

How to reset this?

 

Nice to have it up and running, and congratulations on the child.

 

You need OPCOM to get rid of the light. Or take the car to an Opel dealer, ask gently if they just can plug in their tool and the light is gone in less then 2 minutes. I didn´t even have to pay for it.  



#527 vocky

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:00 PM

I have a low coolant indicator lightning and this is not strange at all since the connector  isn´t even plugged in. So

how do I solve this, Just bridging the connector or do I need any resistance or anything to cheat this light?

 

just connect the two wires together



#528 Aerodynamic

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 06:33 PM

Thank you guys. Hope to get her through the swedish MOT soon.

#529 Aerodynamic

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 06:27 AM

Below are the sig :huh:

X13 is the diagnostic plug in the VX220

I asume connecting pin 7 should be enough?!

Posted Image

 

Yesterday I did a geo and the guys who did this had to work for 4 hours. Sweeds are not to used to these cars I supose.

He did put in a extra 1mm shim on one of  the rear wheels and this did about 0.5 degrees.

In the front he took away 1mm shim on both sides and it did almost nothng.  :huh:

I believe this must be due to the car wasn´t droped in ride height enought when he re measured this?

AndI should have something like 1.4-1.5 deg in the front.

My front knuckles should have been machined of 2.5mm material but I believe it was more to 0.5mm.

How can I measure this?

 

Posted Image

 

I ordered some helper springs for the front and hope I can lower it maybe 5mm more.

Also ordered and recived 2 days ago an OP-COM.

 

Br, Per


Edited by Aerodynamic, 27 June 2015 - 06:32 AM.


#530 Aerodynamic

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 06:43 AM

Missed to copy the wiring from the Honda box but it should be like this.

pin 4 (BLK) = chassis ground pin 5 (BRN/YEL) = LG3 logic ground from ECU pin E3 pin 7 (LT BLU) = "K-Line" (2-way OBDII serial communications line) to ECU pin E23 pin 9 (BRN) = SCS (Service Check Signal) line to ECU pin E29 pin 12 (RED/WHT) = write-enable signal to ECU pin E30 (for rewriting the ECU) pin 14 (GRAY) = +5V from immobilizer control unit pin 3 (probably for rewriting immobilizer codes) pin 16 (WHT/RED) = +12V battery voltage (from #9 BACKUP fuse 7.5A)



#531 Arno

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 09:53 AM

Yup.. Normally all you need for an OBD reader to work is to connect pin 7 on the OBD plug to the Honda ECU pin E23

 

As far as I know is the original setup in the Speedster/VX that this line is passed from the connector through the immobiliser ring around the ignition lock (and then to the ECU when it's paired/authenticated to the ECU) and not directly wired to the ECU from the connector so you may need to run a new wire or bypass something to get the Honda ECU signal there.

 

At least I assume your setup no longer uses the original immobiliser with the transponder in the key.

 

Bye, Arno



#532 Aerodynamic

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 07:28 PM

Hi Arno and thanks for your reply, you know they are Always welcome and informative.

I thought about this and don´t get it, original pin 7 can´t have any function for Daily use only for diagnostics?! Ince it´s nthing closing any loop.

Wireing the Honda Ecu directly tol pin 7, would this give the Swedish a Clean, readable and error free signal? I hope so.

Then it will not change anything in regards to the immobiliser since I don´t know if it is still in function or not, how could I tell? But it´s working so I`m happy.

 

Yup.. Normally all you need for an OBD reader to work is to connect pin 7 on the OBD plug to the Honda ECU pin E23

 

As far as I know is the original setup in the Speedster/VX that this line is passed from the connector through the immobiliser ring around the ignition lock (and then to the ECU when it's paired/authenticated to the ECU) and not directly wired to the ECU from the connector so you may need to run a new wire or bypass something to get the Honda ECU signal there.

 

At least I assume your setup no longer uses the original immobiliser with the transponder in the key.

 

Bye, Arno

 



#533 Arno

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:44 AM

On the diagnostic plug in the passenger fot area there are only a few pins that are important for basic engine diagnostic:

 

Posted Image

 

All that's really needed is pin 4, 16 and 7.

 

4 and 16 are obvious :)

 

7 is connected to the ECU, which in the case of the Honda ECU would be E23

 

If this is connected then an engine diagnostic tester would be able to connect to the Honda ECU and check it's status for emission stuff.

 

On an S2 Elise this is a simple operation as the wires from the diagnostic plug go directly to the back of the car and to the original ECU connector and all you need to do is move 1 wire. These cars do not have a transponder key system like the Speedster but use a separate immobiliser that's integrated into the alarm system.

 

On the Speedster this is done differently..

 

The original Opel/GM ECU in the back is/was connected to an immobiliser with antenna ring around the ignition lock. In your original key there is a transponder chip and if you try to start the car the immobiliser will check the key and send an 'OK' signal to the ECU to start the engine if the transponder chip inside the key is recognised.

 

Because you do not want thieves to install a new immobiliser in the car, both the immobiliser and the ECU are 'paired' to each other with a (secret) PIN code so you can't just replace the immobiliser to start the car with a fake key.

 

To make this system secure they also use the immobiliser as a 'message passing' box that sits between the diagnostic plug and the ECU and will only relay data between the diagnostig plug and the ECU if they are 'paired' properly (so you also can not re-program keys with a replacement immobiliser fitted..).

 

This is why normally you need to 'unlock' or 'de-pair' the ECU and immobiliser before installing a new ECU or immobiliser in these cars.

 

Now...

 

In your setup with the Honda engine and ECU the original GM/Opel immobiliser and transponder ring on the ignition lock will be useless.

 

The Honda ECU can not talk to the Opel/GM immobiliser to get a 'go or no-go' handshake (these protocols are proprietary and vendor specific) and it will have no function. You should be able to start the car normally if you have for instance  a key copied without the transponder and try to use it. In your case it should start quite happily once you turn the key press the start button.  With the Opel/GM engine/ECU it would start and then cut out in about 2 seconds.

 

Check the path of the wiring from OBD pin 7 to the ECU in the schematics and you should be able to see what's going on.

 

BTW.. The original META alarm system on the Speedster is completely separate from the engine and ECU and does not do anything to prevent the car from being started. It just makes noise.. Nothing else.. It could be set up to work as an immobiliser like in the Elise but you need a few extra parts. (unless your car already has a different/aftermarket alarm system.. that could include an immobiliser setup inside it..)

 

But to get the Honda ECU diagnostic information on the OBD plug (which is what you want) you will need to make some changes:

 

Either:

 

- Keep the existing wiring in place and bypass the original immobiliser from the data path and then pick up the signal wire in the back of the car and connect it to the Honda ECU so the Honda ECU E23 is wired directly to OBD pin 7, 'skipping' the immobiliser.

 

Or:

 

- Run a completely new wire from the OBD plug to the honda ECU and crimp/solder/wire to the OBD plug pin 7  and Honda ECU pin E23

 

or:

 

- Buy a new OBD plug and just install/connect pins 4, 16 and 7 and wire these to GND, permanent 12V and Honda ECU E23 and push the original diagnostic plug away and tell the guys to connect to this one for their checks.

 

In the last option you may want to keep the original plug in place as this also provides access to the ABS and Airbag/SRS system if you ever have problems/errors there.

 

Bye, Arno.



#534 Aerodynamic

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 12:14 PM

How can you know so much?

 

If I go for the option to run a wire from E23 to pin 7 an remove toe original pin 7 cable

will I then not be able to communicate with ABS SRS from pin 12 and 3?

 

Thank you.

 

Br, Per

 

On the diagnostic plug in the passenger fot area there are only a few pins that are important for basic engine diagnostic:

 

Posted Image

 

All that's really needed is pin 4, 16 and 7.

 

4 and 16 are obvious :)

 

7 is connected to the ECU, which in the case of the Honda ECU would be E23

 

If this is connected then an engine diagnostic tester would be able to connect to the Honda ECU and check it's status for emission stuff.

 

On an S2 Elise this is a simple operation as the wires from the diagnostic plug go directly to the back of the car and to the original ECU connector and all you need to do is move 1 wire. These cars do not have a transponder key system like the Speedster but use a separate immobiliser that's integrated into the alarm system.

 

On the Speedster this is done differently..

 

The original Opel/GM ECU in the back is/was connected to an immobiliser with antenna ring around the ignition lock. In your original key there is a transponder chip and if you try to start the car the immobiliser will check the key and send an 'OK' signal to the ECU to start the engine if the transponder chip inside the key is recognised.

 

Because you do not want thieves to install a new immobiliser in the car, both the immobiliser and the ECU are 'paired' to each other with a (secret) PIN code so you can't just replace the immobiliser to start the car with a fake key.

 

To make this system secure they also use the immobiliser as a 'message passing' box that sits between the diagnostic plug and the ECU and will only relay data between the diagnostig plug and the ECU if they are 'paired' properly (so you also can not re-program keys with a replacement immobiliser fitted..).

 

This is why normally you need to 'unlock' or 'de-pair' the ECU and immobiliser before installing a new ECU or immobiliser in these cars.

 

Now...

 

In your setup with the Honda engine and ECU the original GM/Opel immobiliser and transponder ring on the ignition lock will be useless.

 

The Honda ECU can not talk to the Opel/GM immobiliser to get a 'go or no-go' handshake (these protocols are proprietary and vendor specific) and it will have no function. You should be able to start the car normally if you have for instance  a key copied without the transponder and try to use it. In your case it should start quite happily once you turn the key press the start button.  With the Opel/GM engine/ECU it would start and then cut out in about 2 seconds.

 

Check the path of the wiring from OBD pin 7 to the ECU in the schematics and you should be able to see what's going on.

 

BTW.. The original META alarm system on the Speedster is completely separate from the engine and ECU and does not do anything to prevent the car from being started. It just makes noise.. Nothing else.. It could be set up to work as an immobiliser like in the Elise but you need a few extra parts. (unless your car already has a different/aftermarket alarm system.. that could include an immobiliser setup inside it..)

 

But to get the Honda ECU diagnostic information on the OBD plug (which is what you want) you will need to make some changes:

 

Either:

 

- Keep the existing wiring in place and bypass the original immobiliser from the data path and then pick up the signal wire in the back of the car and connect it to the Honda ECU so the Honda ECU E23 is wired directly to OBD pin 7, 'skipping' the immobiliser.

 

Or:

 

- Run a completely new wire from the OBD plug to the honda ECU and crimp/solder/wire to the OBD plug pin 7  and Honda ECU pin E23

 

or:

 

- Buy a new OBD plug and just install/connect pins 4, 16 and 7 and wire these to GND, permanent 12V and Honda ECU E23 and push the original diagnostic plug away and tell the guys to connect to this one for their checks.

 

In the last option you may want to keep the original plug in place as this also provides access to the ABS and Airbag/SRS system if you ever have problems/errors there.

 

Bye, Arno.

 



#535 Nev

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 02:24 PM

How can you know so much?

I've asked myself this question too !

#536 Arno

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 05:19 PM

How can you know so much?

I'm just a total nerd with a urgent 'need to know' :D

 

Need to be for my job and it kinda spills over into my hobbies and interests.. :o  

If I go for the option to run a wire from E23 to pin 7 an remove toe original pin 7 cable will I then not be able to communicate with ABS SRS from pin 12 and 3?

  If you run a new cable from the Honda ECU to pin 7 and leave the other pins in place as they are then you should be able to continue communicating with the ABS and Airbag modules via OPCom or similar scanners.

 

And you'll see the Honda ECU when communicating with the engine  B) 

 

Bye, Arno.



#537 Aerodynamic

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 06:49 PM

What are you working with Arno?

 

Yes connecting the Hondata E23 to Pin 7 on oem connector was my idea, why do anyone wants to read oem immobilaser signal?

Anyway now I have two connectors, but should be easy to change this into 1 connector.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

How can you know so much?

I'm just a total nerd with a urgent 'need to know' :D

 

Need to be for my job and it kinda spills over into my hobbies and interests.. :o  

If I go for the option to run a wire from E23 to pin 7 an remove toe original pin 7 cable will I then not be able to communicate with ABS SRS from pin 12 and 3?

  If you run a new cable from the Honda ECU to pin 7 and leave the other pins in place as they are then you should be able to continue communicating with the ABS and Airbag modules via OPCom or similar scanners.

 

And you'll see the Honda ECU when communicating with the engine  B)

 

Bye, Arno.

 

 


Edited by Aerodynamic, 28 June 2015 - 06:54 PM.


#538 Arno

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 07:10 PM

What are you working with Arno?

 

Day to day job is more in designing and implementing fiber optic networks with lots of fun stuff on op of it like DWDM and ROADM setups and stacking switching and routing layers (usually with multiple 100G these days) on top.

 

Started out on short haul metro equipment and now working my way up to longer range equipment and international stuff, but it still needs to be done to certain price-point so always needs to be quite creative in using certain technologies to get the best bang for the buck.

 

This especially means not letting vendors/suppliers make the decisions/solutions for you.. It's the easy way but usually results in horribly over-priced and under-performing solutions that are not suited to your needs at all (they want to make the most money.. I understand..). I do find it crucial to understand what you are doing to a detailed level and base decisions on that knowledge.

 

I do get very bored only designing stuff behind a desk so I spend a lot of time in the field as well where I need to be able to think and work in creative and fast ways to make certain solutions work in specific conditions. Basically means I'm configuring routers and switches in one moment and TIG-welding an extraction fan housing for additional ventilation in a housing the next.. Keeps things interesting, abeit sometimes a little hectic and little spare time! :D

 

Bye, Arno.



#539 Aerodynamic

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 07:39 PM

Ok thats great Arno, then you are working with a lot of Electric stuff and understands it. Beeing creative is some thing I encourage. I try to be creative in my work aswell. Diagnostic connect or, should I just cut pin 7 from IMO and re router it to Hondata E23? Then I will be able to read both engine, ABS and airbag? And I wont miss the signal from the IMO? ABS and airbag signal is not dependent on pin 7 from IMO? Thanks

#540 Arno

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:37 AM

ABS and airbag should be all separate systems so if you cut the original wire to pin 7 and then hook up the Honda ECU to that it should all work fine. thumbsup

 

The OBD scanner used by the Swedish MOT probably only accesses the engine ECU anyway and checks some basic status values as it's the only bit that's (partly) standardised. ABS and SRS are all very vendor specific stuff.

 

Bye, Arno.






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