2116 replies to this topic

[smiley]

To answer a question about the group buy. I don't get the impression this is business for Peter so not the same financial incentive to get cash in.

Thats the impression I got, he see's it more as his creation like an artist would IMHO. As opposed to normal business ethos. I guess that comes from being the sole developer of the product for so many years...

If he never got a speedster, none of this ever would have happened.
It´s vx/speedster only. Not available for for the astra boys.
The guy REALY loves our little cars.

[leevx2.2]

Someone has a Vx with this software on a harrop already and all good apparently

That should be Ultimate who is running a Harrop and wired up the IAT sensor to the intakemanifold. (Z22SE IAT sensor has identical response as a Bosch TMAP, so a simple rewire.)
Edit; to slow...
Mind you, he measured >75*C temps on the Autobahn with a 75mm pulley fitted and 1,55bar boost pressure... That is a lot!! :o/>

And as stated here a few times, the new software gives you the tools to properly map the Z22SE, but it gives no magical power and if done wrong you can blow up your engine...

The OBD calibration process itself seems very similar to road tuning with the HPTuners LSJ ecu: Let the ecu optimise it's fuel trims in cruising and low load in Closed Loop mode (14.7AFR) with the narrowband O2 sensor, then later flash the fuelling map with the learned trim corrections. That should get the mapping close very quickly.
In the higer loads things get tricky, as the ecu normally switches here to Power Enrichment mode (~11.8AFR for boost) and this is out of the narrowband sensor range.
OBD is always in closed loop mode during calibration (correct me if I'm wrong Peter) so the high loads have to be calibrated near the 14.7AFR in short WOT periods with sufficient cooling down .

With the LSJ I prefer to do these higer loads with a Wideband O2 sensor feedback and monitor the fuelling error between the Commanded AFR (say 11.8) and the WB-O2 measured AFR.. (Which should be close to 11.8AFR if the mapping is correct)
Not sure if it's in OBD yet, but it would be possible to log an analog wideband signal through the (redundant) EGR wiring and then adjust WOT fuelling accordingly.

@Cliffie; I would try to get this a.s.a.p on a different Z22SE ecu. It's plug &play with your current wiring/ecu and if iut's not it you could always sell the OBD-ecu here on the forum. B)/>

Have you a part number for the new map sensor so I can measure IAT
I need to get some penny's together lol

Edited by leevx2.2, 21 January 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

So what other options are there ? Which ones work and do what they say on the tin ?

[Exmantaa]

Someone has a Vx with this software on a harrop already and all good apparently

That should be Ultimate who is running a Harrop and wired up the IAT sensor to the intakemanifold. (Z22SE IAT sensor has identical response as a Bosch TMAP, so a simple rewire.)
Edit; to slow...
Mind you, he measured >75*C temps on the Autobahn with a 75mm pulley fitted and 1,55bar boost pressure... That is a lot!! :o/>

And as stated here a few times, the new software gives you the tools to properly map the Z22SE, but it gives no magical power and if done wrong you can blow up your engine...

The OBD calibration process itself seems very similar to road tuning with the HPTuners LSJ ecu: Let the ecu optimise it's fuel trims in cruising and low load in Closed Loop mode (14.7AFR) with the narrowband O2 sensor, then later flash the fuelling map with the learned trim corrections. That should get the mapping close very quickly.
In the higer loads things get tricky, as the ecu normally switches here to Power Enrichment mode (~11.8AFR for boost) and this is out of the narrowband sensor range.
OBD is always in closed loop mode during calibration (correct me if I'm wrong Peter) so the high loads have to be calibrated near the 14.7AFR in short WOT periods with sufficient cooling down .

With the LSJ I prefer to do these higer loads with a Wideband O2 sensor feedback and monitor the fuelling error between the Commanded AFR (say 11.8) and the WB-O2 measured AFR.. (Which should be close to 11.8AFR if the mapping is correct)
Not sure if it's in OBD yet, but it would be possible to log an analog wideband signal through the (redundant) EGR wiring and then adjust WOT fuelling accordingly.

@Cliffie; I would try to get this a.s.a.p on a different Z22SE ecu. It's plug &play with your current wiring/ecu and if iut's not it you could always sell the OBD-ecu here on the forum. B)/>

Have you a part number for the new map sensor so I can measure IAT
I need to get some penny's together lol

You mean a Bosch TMAP sensor? What pressure range?
(It's similar to the Z20LET TMAP)

[leevx2.2]

Someone has a Vx with this software on a harrop already and all good apparently

That should be Ultimate who is running a Harrop and wired up the IAT sensor to the intakemanifold. (Z22SE IAT sensor has identical response as a Bosch TMAP, so a simple rewire.)
Edit; to slow...
Mind you, he measured >75*C temps on the Autobahn with a 75mm pulley fitted and 1,55bar boost pressure... That is a lot!! :o/>

And as stated here a few times, the new software gives you the tools to properly map the Z22SE, but it gives no magical power and if done wrong you can blow up your engine...

The OBD calibration process itself seems very similar to road tuning with the HPTuners LSJ ecu: Let the ecu optimise it's fuel trims in cruising and low load in Closed Loop mode (14.7AFR) with the narrowband O2 sensor, then later flash the fuelling map with the learned trim corrections. That should get the mapping close very quickly.
In the higer loads things get tricky, as the ecu normally switches here to Power Enrichment mode (~11.8AFR for boost) and this is out of the narrowband sensor range.
OBD is always in closed loop mode during calibration (correct me if I'm wrong Peter) so the high loads have to be calibrated near the 14.7AFR in short WOT periods with sufficient cooling down .

With the LSJ I prefer to do these higer loads with a Wideband O2 sensor feedback and monitor the fuelling error between the Commanded AFR (say 11.8) and the WB-O2 measured AFR.. (Which should be close to 11.8AFR if the mapping is correct)
Not sure if it's in OBD yet, but it would be possible to log an analog wideband signal through the (redundant) EGR wiring and then adjust WOT fuelling accordingly.

@Cliffie; I would try to get this a.s.a.p on a different Z22SE ecu. It's plug &play with your current wiring/ecu and if iut's not it you could always sell the OBD-ecu here on the forum. B)/>

Have you a part number for the new map sensor so I can measure IAT
I need to get some penny's together lol

You mean a Bosch TMAP sensor? What pressure range?
(It's similar to the Z20LET TMAP)

All intakes we get come with the 2bar map sensor the same as the z20 let so I have a couple lol

Edited by leevx2.2, 21 January 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[Exmantaa]

That's a Bosch 2,5bar TMAP and the pressure response is programmed in OBD Tuner. (You can spot it in the video)
Think it's already 2 years ago I gave Peter some data about this, because it was OEM for the SC manifold...


@Scuba; what other options? MAP sensor or working SC ecu options?

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

ECU and mapping ? I've got as said all these bits in the garage waiting to go on the car and I know to get it running correct it will need mapping . I think I have the 68 mm TB but it could be a 65 mm it's been in the garage for so long I can't remember a 2.4 manifold and I'd like to change the cams at a later point. Then eventually SC.

[techieboy]

This is your only option if you want to get a 65mm throttle body working. If you just want to use the 2.4 inlet and some non-crazy cams (which you wont want with an SC setup anyway) then Courtenay and maybe TMS (if they're still interested) can map the car for it and got some decent results on my car and MartinS' car four or five years ago. TMS had some success getting the 68mm throttle body working on Vocky's car when he first did the 2.4 inlet but could never get it working on my car and the car would continually dropped into limp mode on partial throttle. So I ended up removing that and going back to a ported standard throttle body. Don't think Courtenay's had any success with it either.

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

and lsj injectors which I will have soon.

[siztenboots]

Maybe invite him over to the national , he could give a demo of the sw.

[Winstar]

To answer a question about the group buy. I don't get the impression this is business for Peter so not the same financial incentive to get cash in.

Thats the impression I got, he see's it more as his creation like an artist would IMHO. As opposed to normal business ethos. I guess that comes from being the sole developer of the product for so many years...

No it's not a business and would never be one as I suspect that even if he sold one to every speedster made he'd still not recover the time/cost invested in development
However I'd say it's good value as a comparable standalone ecu with fbw control will cost well into 4 figures and the mapper can still lock you out of most of them.

[techieboy]

Yep, TMS & Courtenay can adjust for the LSJ injectors as well. As, obviously, can OBD-Tuner. If you're keeping the car long term and know you're going to be adding stuff along the way, then if OBD-Tuner delivers what it promises, it's the way ahead for this engine.

[NickB787]

I asked Peter a couple of questions here was his reply


These were some questions from the vx220.org.uk forum.
Ok, I will have a look there. Maybe it is a good idea to add a small post
about the differences between the ObdTuner software and the original
software because my website is not up to date yet?

One thing I was thinking about is running a tmap sensor (afr correctionbased on
hat) instead of a regular map sensor.
Only thing is that the T-compensation table should take this intoaccount... (My LSJ starts > retarding spark above 50*C. Not sure how the
Z22SE/OBD compensates)

Yes, the air temperature is taken into account for calculating the fuel
mixture. I have set the spark retarding mechanism to 70C.

learning mode in OBD tuner is done in full Closed Loop mode with thenarrowband sensor, so > around 14.7AFR...

This is not completely accurate, it is actually closer to an AFR of 13.5
because the standard Lambda sensor is not completely switching and is
capable of measuring a little bit outside the lambda 1 range.

Take care with boosted engines that you only do short WOT runs and let itcool in between!

This is correct, For high boosted engines, I always advise to do the WOT run
in second gear and afterwards give the engine a few seconds time to
recuperate.

On higlly boosted engines I would stick with a safer Open Loop fuelenrichment logging with > safer Wideband feedback ~11.8AFR
(Think Peter now made a signal logging possible through the redundant EGRwiring.)

Yes, you can log the output from a wideband sensor using the freed up EGR
input and can tune based on this information. You can also do an internal
measuring run, the engine is not forced into closed but the EGR input is
measured for every fuel cell. Afterwards you can easily modify your base
fuel map with this data. This way you do not have to run the engine lean and
can tune the WOT. It is really easy to do, I have not put this into the
manual yet, but. If you like you can send me the learned data from such a
run and I will modify your calibration for you.



Kind regards,
Peter

Someone has a Vx with this software on a harrop already and all good apparently

Yea the chap has a hitec conversion with the small upright cc rad which will be why he is getting the high temps. One thing I like is I can change the injector sizes and just change it in the software I think 470 are a bit small

[leevx2.2]

I asked Peter a couple of questions here was his reply


These were some questions from the vx220.org.uk forum.
Ok, I will have a look there. Maybe it is a good idea to add a small post
about the differences between the ObdTuner software and the original
software because my website is not up to date yet?

One thing I was thinking about is running a tmap sensor (afr correctionbased on
hat) instead of a regular map sensor.
Only thing is that the T-compensation table should take this intoaccount... (My LSJ starts > retarding spark above 50*C. Not sure how the
Z22SE/OBD compensates)

Yes, the air temperature is taken into account for calculating the fuel
mixture. I have set the spark retarding mechanism to 70C.

learning mode in OBD tuner is done in full Closed Loop mode with thenarrowband sensor, so > around 14.7AFR...

This is not completely accurate, it is actually closer to an AFR of 13.5
because the standard Lambda sensor is not completely switching and is
capable of measuring a little bit outside the lambda 1 range.

Take care with boosted engines that you only do short WOT runs and let itcool in between!

This is correct, For high boosted engines, I always advise to do the WOT run
in second gear and afterwards give the engine a few seconds time to
recuperate.

On higlly boosted engines I would stick with a safer Open Loop fuelenrichment logging with > safer Wideband feedback ~11.8AFR
(Think Peter now made a signal logging possible through the redundant EGRwiring.)

Yes, you can log the output from a wideband sensor using the freed up EGR
input and can tune based on this information. You can also do an internal
measuring run, the engine is not forced into closed but the EGR input is
measured for every fuel cell. Afterwards you can easily modify your base
fuel map with this data. This way you do not have to run the engine lean and
can tune the WOT. It is really easy to do, I have not put this into the
manual yet, but. If you like you can send me the learned data from such a
run and I will modify your calibration for you.



Kind regards,
Peter

Someone has a Vx with this software on a harrop already and all good apparently

Yea the chap has a hitec conversion with the small upright cc rad which will be why he is getting the high temps. One thing I like is I can change the injector sizes and just change it in the software I think 470 are a bit small

Peter is running 650 injectors but need to program different 650 as they are a straight swap .i think Exmanta is sending some to him Siemens 650 so should be the way for the Harrop boys

[NickB787]

Yes he has sent them and Peter is putting the info into the software

[Exmantaa]

Well, small correction.. I have them here packed in a box waiting to be shipped today to Peter. These are the same Siemens 60lbs injectors Joe has currently in his car and a direct swap (connector wise) with the blue VXR's.

[oakmere]

ECU on ebay

[Bargi]

Well, small correction.. I have them here packed in a box waiting to be shipped today to Peter.
These are the same Siemens 60lbs injectors Joe has currently in his car and a direct swap (connector wise) with the blue VXR's.

Are these said injectors? here
Also seems there's a long and short version?

[slindborg]

FTR I are keen to have a learn should anyone dare let me near a car

[JohnTurbo]

Im assuming the astra ecu is the same?