2116 replies to this topic

[ultimate]

Don't forget: With obd-tuner you can go to every company that does mappings. They don't have to dance with the old ecu and punish it to work with boost. The ecu is really open, no tricks are needed. Just put the values in the cells. So, every company that has a rolling road and knows how to map a engine can help you. Without obd-tuner you need courtenay (klasen)

[ultimate]

You can use a wideband read out for wot-fuel mapping With the newest version pc software. No closed-loop wot anymore

[Mike (Cliffie)]

What needs to happen is this software needs to go on my Time Attack car and once it proves itself open, reliable and usable everybody will want it.

[oakmere]

Makes me want to get a wide band sensor now. Must resist!

[smiley]

What needs to happen is this software needs to go on my Time Attack car and once it proves itself open, reliable and usable everybody will want it.

Because the other 50 to 100 people allready running this from version 1 are not enough?
I really don´t understand why this seems such scary stuff for people here.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

What needs to happen is this software needs to go on my Time Attack car and once it proves itself open, reliable and usable everybody will want it.

Because the other 50 to 100 people allready running this from version 1 are not enough?
I really don´t understand why this seems such scary stuff for people here.

How many cars in the UK are running this successfully and how many to the state of tune I have?

Edited by Cliffie, 19 April 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[techieboy]

I really don´t understand why this seems such scary stuff for people here.

It's not scary. It's more that it's a hell of an investment for potentially minor improvements if you've already invested in the Courtenay/Klassen route (and are therefore not paying for further mapping) or have no great ambition to further modify things over the standard "stages".

What would be interesting to see is a back to back test on the same car. Something like a Stage 3 kind of spec mapped by Courtenay's, then the ECU wiped (or more likely swapped) and Peter's custom stuff flashed onto it and optimised for the same car. Would be nice to have them both properly dyno'd as well, instead of people quoting numbers from it's internal power calculation.

As it is, the best part of £800 is a lot to pay for some unquantifiable/intangible benefit.

[siztenboots]

personally I don't think a TA car is a good example. It spends most of its time on WOT map which is open loop.

[smiley]

How many cars in the UK are running this successfully and how many to the state of tune I have?

none.
How many harrops did CS setup with happy owners?

The harrops are just to new, and in their R&D stages for clear conclusions.

[LY_Scott]

, the best part of £800 is a lot to pay for some unquantifiable/intangible benefit.

Nail, head.

[smiley]

I really don´t understand why this seems such scary stuff for people here.

It's not scary. It's more that it's a hell of an investment for potentially minor improvements if you've already invested in the Courtenay/Klassen route (and are therefore not paying for further mapping) or have no great ambition to further modify things over the standard "stages".

What would be interesting to see is a back to back test on the same car. Something like a Stage 3 kind of spec mapped by Courtenay's, then the ECU wiped (or more likely swapped) and Peter's custom stuff flashed onto it and optimised for the same car. Would be nice to have them both properly dyno'd as well, instead of people quoting numbers from it's internal power calculation.

As it is, the best part of £800 is a lot to pay for some unquantifiable/intangible benefit.

I thought it was allready established, that if you´re happy with your current map, you´d be daft to spend this much money on a new one.
Internal power calculations from it are not really reliable. All quotes i have seen are from dyno sessions.
It also does not bring you any horsepower by itself. All it does is buy control to change.
If that is not your thing, stick with CS. There is nothing wrong with their work.

[fezzasus]

Does this map allow for the PCV to remain?

No, overpressure and oil squirting out the rocker cover problem remains.

any plans to work on it?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

How many cars in the UK are running this successfully and how many to the state of tune I have?

none.
How many harrops did CS setup with happy owners?

Three now maybe four and there are at least another eight in build over here that I know of as I supplied the chargers.

The point is a simple one. The take up so far in the UK is poor but the potential is big. What is needed is a Harrop'd car such as mine or Nick's to have the software installed and mapped sucessfully.

This would give the UK market the proof and confidence to spend £800 on software from somebody they have never met. It really isn't rocket science but simple marketing.

[rik]

got any spare harrops? I wouldn't mind throwing one on if you insist

[siztenboots]

the harrup market is a small one , a bit like stage 5 turbo tuning time and effort would be better spent on M62 based setups

[techieboy]

I thought it was allready established, that if you´re happy with your current map, you´d be daft to spend this much money on a new one.

Agreed, it has been established. It's also clear it's of questionable value if you're only every going to have, for example, an "off the shelf" stage conversion and to a lesser degree staying with one tuner throughout whatever your journey is. That's why people aren't falling over themselves to invest £800 in to it. They're not scared of it, they just struggle to see enough value in it. Especially if they're not planning on constantly changing components on the car.

There's no doubt about it, it's an amazing piece of work and hats off to Peter for doing it and making it so flexible. With hindsight, I wish it had been available 6 years ago when I started modifying. Unfortunately it wasn't, nor did I necessarily have the foresight to know just how many evolutions I'd go through with the car to have convinced myself it would be worth the investment - I was never going past TMS Stage 2+ and I certainly wasn't ever going to Stage 3 SC (or any of the numerous stages between) . But the fact is, unless you're going to be continually upgrading, it's probably £300 overpriced (in the UK at least) for most non-tinkerers to consider it viable. On mainland Europe, where a Speedster costs 50% more then maybe the cost/benefit equation is different.

[siztenboots]

the only way to offset the cost is if there was a market in stage 2 SC ECU with CS map for people to swap over as part of the SC install , rather than the base map.

[slindborg]

personally I don't think a TA car is a good example. It spends most of its time on WOT map which is open loop.

Agreed.

WOT calibration is p*ss easy. FUELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL done.


A dull commuter car would be the 'best' proof imho, as it covers all the driveability aspects that 99.999999%* of chooooners gloss over and fcuk up


*ok maybe 95%

[Bargi]

What needs to happen is this software needs to go on my Time Attack car and once it proves itself open, reliable and usable everybody will want it.

Because the other 50 to 100 people allready running this from version 1 are not enough?
I really don´t understand why this seems such scary stuff for people here.

Because they're all on the Dutch and German forums and we've seen very little information of experience here on .org.
It's a shame because we've all been keen on an alternative for years, If it wasn't for Oakmere we'd all still think it was in beta stages.
Smiley, you and Ultimate are our only link to those of us with the language barrier to the forums, get translating and people will feel more comfortable

I think what people don't see is Peter is more of an enthusiast and has put a lot of work into his product over the years. It's understandable the way he's rolling it out in a controlled manner to make sure he can put the time in to ensure people using his product correctly and safe manner.

Cost wise compared to a one off trip to CS it's more but there's also the tinker/cool factor and to be an early adopter (well over in the UK anyway) which some people can appreciate.

[smiley]

But the fact is, unless you're going to be continually upgrading, it's probably £300 overpriced (in the UK at least) for most non-tinkerers to consider it viable.

Compared to a mapping yes. Compared to an emerald alike, not so much.
it´s just not for everyone. Those who take the plunge enjoy.
Those with a standard stage 2 and allready mapped, just stay out of this topic.

Edited by smiley, 19 April 2013 - 11:13 AM.