2116 replies to this topic

[Bargi]

What needs to happen is this software needs to go on my Time Attack car and once it proves itself open, reliable and usable everybody will want it.

Email Peter and see what he says, can't hurt can it?
I would have thought though that you'd want less unknowns going into TA as possible.

Also was there not talk of an aftermarket ECU going on I thought I saw?

[techieboy]

Compared to an emerald alike, not so much.

You can't compare it to an aftermarket ECU though. An aftermarket is transferable between totally different engines and totally different cars and generally has lots more features. This is only ever going to be suitable for the Z22SE engine in the VX/Speedster (seem to remember Peter saying it wasn't even suitable for the Astra/Vectra though not sure why), unless someone is retarted enough to actually want to use the Z22SE and everything else in another car. I could buy a K6 now, with it's built-in drive by wire support and could probably run every engine/car combination I ever have in the future with it (though maybe not some w4nky hybrid) and probably get Dave Walker to add support for as yet unknown requirements to it, as needed.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

the harrup market is a small one , a bit like stage 5 turbo tuning

time and effort would be better spent on M62 based setups

But if it works with the extremes the Harrop will demand of it, the M62 will be a walk in the park plus it is the Harrops that have the demand for the extra control as Stage 1, 2 and 3 M62 conversions are well mapped and well proven on the standard OEM software.

Lets do the maths; Software supplier gives a licence away to a UK owner. Cost £800 retail, real cost to him is debatable but to be honest negligable. Software maps as it should, car is more controlled and safer and owner raves about it. Company that mapped it loves it and promotes it. A dozen UK owners say hey, that's good stuff right there and buy it. Result: Seller makes £9,600.

Seller does nowt in the UK, nobody buys it. Seller makes £0.00.

Look, bottom line is nobody in the UK is investing, it is not proven in the UK and it is expensive. If there is no interest in the UK market then fine, don't worry about it but if the UK is a market that the seller is looking to break into, it will take some investment in marketing.

I care not if it goes on my car, I have two offers of standalone as it is and lack of time is the only reason I have yet to go down this route. The offer is there to flash it and map it on mine if it was a route to market but I am not going to spend £800 on it to prove to the UK it works. There is still truth in thefact that if it is proved on a race car then it sells to the road car. Win on Sunday-sell on Monday. It is why any technical sponsor or car manufacturer get involved in motorsport.

[smiley]

I could buy a K6 now, with it's built-in drive by wire support and could probably run every engine/car combination I ever have in the future with it (though maybe not some w4nky hybrid) and probably get Dave Walker to add support for as yet unknown requirements to it, as needed.

What would that cost? (the total picture)

[smiley]

If it wasn't for Oakmere we'd all still think it was in beta stages.
Smiley, you and Ultimate are our only link to those of us with the language barrier to the forums, get translating and people will feel more comfortable

Maybe it´s for the best to have a slow start in the Uk, with just a few taking the plunge, and handing over experiences, and stuff. Maybe a few stage 2´s and 3´s and a lost harrop the message becomes clear on what to expect.
.
With version 1, the dutch almost made his wife leave, due to the success.
In the end it´s just him answering emails and helping you whereever needed.
I don´t think 50 orders in 1 week would go over very well in Peters household.

[rik]

Compared to an emerald alike, not so much.

You can't compare it to an aftermarket ECU though. An aftermarket is transferable between totally different engines and totally different cars and generally has lots more features. This is only ever going to be suitable for the Z22SE engine in the VX/Speedster (seem to remember Peter saying it wasn't even suitable for the Astra/Vectra though not sure why), unless someone is retarted enough to actually want to use the Z22SE and everything else in another car. I could buy a K6 now, with it's built-in drive by wire support and could probably run every engine/car combination I ever have in the future with it (though maybe not some w4nky hybrid) and probably get Dave Walker to add support for as yet unknown requirements to it, as needed.

it would work on a vec/astra i'm pretty sure as the ecu i sent him was an astra one.. it will be missing ac and traction stuff though

mapping standalone very $$$$$$$ as I have found, trigger wheels, coil packs, bad idle blah blah blah

[slindborg]

Could fit a Z22SE with pedal into a novaaaaa

[rik]

the fact that he hasn't even posted here shows that he isn't trying to push it and probably doesn't care about it being successful in uk.. but it's there if you want to buy it but it sounds like you just want it for free

[Mike (Cliffie)]

the fact that he hasn't even posted here shows that he isn't trying to push it and probably doesn't care about it being successful in uk.. but it's there if you want to buy it but it sounds like you just want it for free

Nope, it is not that I want it for free.

There has been a lot of talk but no take up here. Stick it on Nick's, Techie's, mine and prove it works, the UK market has faith in investing.

I work in motorsport in a sales and marketing role and I know what works. If Peter does not want UK market, fair play.

[NickB787]

I was in contact with Peter for some time (Lee also), he was not interested in the least on giving any form of discount for any reason. Shame I would take it up straight away, but as all I want something which will give me more than I already have (as it is mapped already). I don't think I will be doing any major mods now as close to 400bhp is enough 1 for the liners and 2 for me..... if I go b207 head will that still work with this software? I know 60lbs are the way to go but (SORRY) for a change someone else can do R&D costs, done mine

[techieboy]

I could buy a K6 now, with it's built-in drive by wire support and could probably run every engine/car combination I ever have in the future with it (though maybe not some w4nky hybrid) and probably get Dave Walker to add support for as yet unknown requirements to it, as needed.

What would that cost? (the total picture)

No idea as I've no intention of fitting one and haven't spoken to them for 3+ years. £595 for the K6 ECU, £70 for a non-custom loom according to their site. Not sure whether that includes the DBW drivers inside the ecu or not, as it's new functionality. Then whatever expertise you decide you want to pay for, to get someone to map it properly, assuming you don't DIY it. So, up, running and mapped maybe £1k with a couple of switchable maps, maybe £1.2k? Dunno.

But, if I had a brain fart and bought a yotamota S2 Exige the ECU would work equally well on that. If I then decided I'd much prefer an S1, it would equally run the K series and it's cable throttle and after I'd inevitably killed that and decided a Duratec or Honda motor was they way ahead, it would also run one of those and all of the VTEC/VVTi/superchargers that may or may not be bolted to it.

[rik]

it will be successful, just takes time Imagine if I had just bought a harrop and nick could send me his map, saving $1000's on outside mapping... that's what its all about if you ask me

[smiley]

but it's there if you want to buy it but it sounds like you just want it for free

The dutch went through the same cycle 3 years ago.
It was perceived as a bit too expensive, as most just saw the map part and started comparing to pop over to Courtenay for an NA remap.
It grew on us what it actually was over time.

[techieboy]

mapping standalone very $$$$$$$ as I have found, trigger wheels, coil packs, bad idle blah blah blah

Absolutely. But that cost is exactly the same whether it's an Emerald, a Motec, a Syvecs, a Peter flashed Z22SE Delphi ECU or even the LSJ ECU for that matter. Just as expensive if you want something done to the normal Delphi ECU as well but a far more limited choice of who can actually do anything with it. The Custom Delphi (and the LSJ ECU) would have a headstart as there should be a reasonable base map available to suit and give a foundation to work from. They all have self-learning of one form or another, all have funky software interfaces and any of them would see me taking it somewhere to get it properly done and thoroughly checked.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

but it's there if you want to buy it but it sounds like you just want it for free

The dutch went through the same cycle 3 years ago.
It was perceived as a bit too expensive, as most just saw the map part and started comparing to pop over to Courtenay for an NA remap.
It grew on us what it actually was over time.

My trip to Courtenay cost me RR time which would be the same for the standard Z22 software as the Peter system and £70 in diesel, I guess to come over from Holland is considerably more than that so it makes the maths easier for our Dutch cousins.

[siztenboots]

I can't see the point in putting an NA on the RR , just live map it under normal road conditions

[smiley]

My trip to Courtenay cost me RR time which would be the same for the standard Z22 software as the Peter system and £70 in diesel, I guess to come over from Holland is considerably more than that so it makes the maths easier for our Dutch cousins.

True. The dutch had no options before peter. Most went for a safe CS basemap on 7k.
One guy went to klasen with his stage 3, and lost 1200 on rr/finetuning time.
Was not happy with the result, and has switched to Peters software as soon as V2 became available.

[smiley]

if I go b207 head will that still work with this software?
I know 60lbs are the way to go but (SORRY) for a change someone else can do R&D costs, done mine

ultimate is on B207 iirrc

[rik]

I sure as hell don't plan to rr it, the maps is going to be very accurate as it comes because of all the eu users already using it to give you an idea of rr costs of a standalone, looking at at least 500+vat for a map that's had only a few hours work and is probably not very usable on a road car without more time spent on idleing, mid range, temperature compensations, hot start, cold start etc etc.. I am going to be much happier with this proven base map with just making small tweaks where needed, and maybe just go for a power run when all seems good

[techieboy]

and lost 1200 on rr/finetuning time.

Klassen must work in a totally different way on your side of the North Sea. No wonder it's sometimes hard to get/keep his attention when we're at Courtenay's.

I said it before, probably in this thread, but I don't think I've clocked up £800, let alone the £1k that guy has paid, in mapping charges from the initial Stage 2 conversion all the way through to now. That's with four separate visits to map for different configurations (and numerous maps for each of those) and what felt like the car being on the dyno pretty much all day (in reality only ever 2 hours at most, once it's properly billed), each day.

I'm probably still more out of pocket on all of the Superchips/TMS NA mapping work that all effectively went in the bin when I took the car to Courtenay's for the SC conversion. See what I mean, if only I knew then, what I know now (and this ecu flash being available).