2116 replies to this topic

[smiley]

Klassen must work in a totally different way on your side of the North Sea. No wonder it's sometimes hard to get/keep his attention when we're at Courtenay's.

Basicly CS has one hell of a deal with klasen as it seems, as you guys are charged relativily peanuts for a full day of RR work. (with 80% idle time)

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Klassen must work in a totally different way on your side of the North Sea. No wonder it's sometimes hard to get/keep his attention when we're at Courtenay's.

Basicly CS has one hell of a deal with klasen as it seems, as you guys are charged relativily peanuts for a full day of RR work. (with 80% idle time)

We only pay for actual RR time spent and not for the time waiting for Stefan to update the maps. OK so we are there all day but realistically only pay for two hours mapping.

[techieboy]

I sure as hell don't plan to rr it, the maps is going to be very accurate as it comes because of all the eu users already using it

to give you an idea of rr costs of a standalone, looking at at least 500+vat for a map that's had only a few hours work and is probably not very usable on a road car without more time spent on idleing, mid range, temperature compensations, hot start, cold start etc etc..

I am going to be much happier with this proven base map with just making small tweaks where needed, and maybe just go for a power run when all seems good

Fair play to you. I've already killed one expensive engine that was probably partially down to the superchips "custom" on road map that was pouring fuel into the engine with no hope of it ever combusting properly and there's no way I wouldn't be taking it somewhere to get it properly mapped, throughout it's rev range and with a decent wideband on it. No matter how good the base map was. You may be comfortable doing that, I'm not.

It's a long time ago but Dave Walker quoted a lot less than £500 for an Emerald map (though at that time it wouldn't work with DBW or the 7+1 trigger pattern and was immaterial as there's no way I was bodging an external trigger wheel, cable throttle and idle valves etc). I've also been quoted £70 per hour for dyno map optimisation with HPTuners on the LSJ ECU with an already loaded suitable base map. Again, I could DIY it, or download some Yankee Doodle maps but I'm not an engine calibrator and have no plans to ever be and would rather pay for someones expertise (and someone to blame when it doesn't work).

[techieboy]

only pay for two hours mapping.

Never been charged more than that and even then, Jon is always a little apologetic when he says he's going to have to charge for 2 hours.

[oakmere]

I don't see the point in handing the car to a tuning company when you have this software when the point is you can do it yourself? I can understand a dyno pull to give a power reading and check AFR but that is it. Remember for all the SC people the ECU operates in a completely different mode with the OBD tuner. You will have speed density mapping not alpha-n. Speed density uses the map sensor reading to control fuelling. This is very important for boosted applications as the ECU knows when the engine is boosting. I am assuming CS can't do this so the ECU bases the fuelling on throttle position (alpha-n). If so is fuelling a set estimate + safety margin which is why you get over fuelling?

[smiley]

Speed density is obd only.

[Kieran McC]

I sure as hell don't plan to rr it, the maps is going to be very accurate as it comes because of all the eu users already using it

to give you an idea of rr costs of a standalone, looking at at least 500+vat for a map that's had only a few hours work and is probably not very usable on a road car without more time spent on idleing, mid range, temperature compensations, hot start, cold start etc etc..

I am going to be much happier with this proven base map with just making small tweaks where needed, and maybe just go for a power run when all seems good

Fair play to you. I've already killed one expensive engine that was probably partially down to the superchips "custom" on road map that was pouring fuel into the engine with no hope of it ever combusting properly and there's no way I wouldn't be taking it somewhere to get it properly mapped, throughout it's rev range and with a decent wideband on it. No matter how good the base map was. You may be comfortable doing that, I'm not.

It's a long time ago but Dave Walker quoted a lot less than £500 for an Emerald map (though at that time it wouldn't work with DBW or the 7+1 trigger pattern and was immaterial as there's no way I was bodging an external trigger wheel, cable throttle and idle valves etc). I've also been quoted £70 per hour for dyno map optimisation with HPTuners on the LSJ ECU with an already loaded suitable base map. Again, I could DIY it, or download some Yankee Doodle maps but I'm not an engine calibrator and have no plans to ever be and would rather pay for someones expertise (and someone to blame when it doesn't work).

Matt are you fitting The LSJ engine onto your car ? Mines booked in for fitting and mapping towards the end of August

Edited by kieranmcc, 19 April 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[LY_Scott]

I don't see the point in handing the car to a tuning company when you have this software when the point is you can do it yourself?
I can understand a dyno pull to give a power reading and check AFR but that is it.

Remember for all the SC people the ECU operates in a completely different mode with the OBD tuner. You will have speed density mapping not alpha-n. Speed density uses the map sensor reading to control fuelling. This is very important for boosted applications as the ECU knows when the engine is boosting.
I am assuming CS can't do this so the ECU bases the fuelling on throttle position (alpha-n). If so is fuelling a set estimate + safety margin which is why you get over fuelling?

The mistake you're making here is an assumption that everyone understands wtf you just said. Let alone can weigh it up to get good results.

Hence handing it to someone who knows what they are doing.

[smiley]

The mistake you're making here is an assumption that everyone understands wtf you just said. Let alone can weigh it up to get good results.

True.

So friday afternoons reading material.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/MAP_sensor

[techieboy]

Matt are you fitting The LSJ engine onto your car ? Mines booked in for fiting and mapping towards the end of August

Well, the hybrid B207R with some LSJ bits and LSJ ECU. Yes. One day. In the next year. Or two. Or three. That's why the car has been SORN'd since the start of the year. To be honest, I'm hoping the garage, the car and the engine get struck by a meteorite in the meantime and solve the problem, as I can't be arsed with any of them. That's the problem, I can't be arsed with this horrible forged Z22SE and Stage 3 map (see, maybe the Peter reflash would help that). But then I can't be arsed to do anything about it by fitting the factory style engine. Easier to just curse at the car and all of the bits on the rare occasion I have to go into the garage.

[CocoPops]

Lets do the maths; Software supplier gives a licence away to a UK owner. Cost £800 retail, real cost to him is debatable but to be honest negligable. Software maps as it should, car is more controlled and safer and owner raves about it. Company that mapped it loves it and promotes it. A dozen UK owners say hey, that's good stuff right there and buy it. Result: Seller makes £9,600.

Seller does nowt in the UK, nobody buys it. Seller makes £0.00.

Look, bottom line is nobody in the UK is investing, it is not proven in the UK and it is expensive. If there is no interest in the UK market then fine, don't worry about it but if the UK is a market that the seller is looking to break into, it will take some investment in marketing.

This.... again and again and again.

[Bargi]

Matt are you fitting The LSJ engine onto your car ? Mines booked in for fiting and mapping towards the end of August

Well, the hybrid B207R with some LSJ bits and LSJ ECU. Yes. One day. In the next year. Or two. Or three. That's why the car has been SORN'd since the start of the year. To be honest, I'm hoping the garage, the car and the engine get struck by a meteorite in the meantime and solve the problem, as I can't be arsed with any of them. That's the problem, I can't be arsed with this horrible forged Z22SE and Stage 3 map (see, maybe the Peter reflash would help that). But then I can't be arsed to do anything about it by fitting the factory style engine. Easier to just curse at the car and all of the bits on the rare occasion I have to go into the garage.

and to throw another spanner DG is apparently adapting an aftermarket ECU to Harroped car as well...

Edited by techieboy, 19 April 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[NickB787]

Matt are you fitting The LSJ engine onto your car ? Mines booked in for fiting and mapping towards the end of August

Well, the hybrid B207R with some LSJ bits and LSJ ECU. Yes. One day. In the next year. Or two. Or three. That's why the car has been SORN'd since the start of the year. To be honest, I'm hoping the garage, the car and the engine get struck by a meteorite in the meantime and solve the problem, as I can't be arsed with any of them. That's the problem, I can't be arsed with this horrible forged Z22SE and Stage 3 map (see, maybe the Peter reflash would hep that). But then I can't be arsed to do anything about it by fitting the factory style engine. Easier to just curse at the car and all of the bits on the rare occasion I have to go into the garage.

and to throw another spanner DG is apparently adapting an aftermarket ECU to Harroped car as well...

think he might be a bit busy with other stuff.

Edited by NickB777, 19 April 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[techieboy]

I don't see the point in handing the car to a tuning company when you have this software when the point is you can do it yourself?
I can understand a dyno pull to give a power reading and check AFR but that is it.

Remember for all the SC people the ECU operates in a completely different mode with the OBD tuner. You will have speed density mapping not alpha-n. Speed density uses the map sensor reading to control fuelling. This is very important for boosted applications as the ECU knows when the engine is boosting.
I am assuming CS can't do this so the ECU bases the fuelling on throttle position (alpha-n). If so is fuelling a set estimate + safety margin which is why you get over fuelling?

That's fine and long may you have the choice and ability to DIY it and enjoy doing it. I know how to (or at least used to) drive the car to something approaching it's limits and that's all I want to know. I know fcuk all about calibrating engines, know fcuk all about what is safe, what isn't safe, what strategy to use for this that or the other and frankly don't have enough time to want to learn. I want to be able to go somewhere say here's my car, here's the spec, make sure it idles smoothly with these cams in, make sure it starts and runs properly from cold, make sure it does the same from warm, make sure the fuelling/timing/whatever is spot on in each gear from 1000rpm through to 7800rpm and make sure it's not going to melt the first time I use it on track, thank you very much.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I personally thought this was a no brainer for me.. I don't no how far I'm going to go with tuning and live miles away from courtenays I can self map as many times as I please, Or if I want take it to any tuner to fine tune

Edited by Chill, 19 April 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[NickB787]

Ok If all the harrop guys give me £50 each I will get Peters software and after mapping it I will pass the maps on, how does that sound

[Bargi]

I don't see the point in handing the car to a tuning company when you have this software when the point is you can do it yourself?
I can understand a dyno pull to give a power reading and check AFR but that is it.

Remember for all the SC people the ECU operates in a completely different mode with the OBD tuner. You will have speed density mapping not alpha-n. Speed density uses the map sensor reading to control fuelling. This is very important for boosted applications as the ECU knows when the engine is boosting.
I am assuming CS can't do this so the ECU bases the fuelling on throttle position (alpha-n). If so is fuelling a set estimate + safety margin which is why you get over fuelling?

That's fine and long may you have the choice and ability to DIY it and enjoy doing it. I know how to (or at least used to) drive the car to something approaching it's limits and that's all I want to know. I know fcuk all about calibrating engines, know fcuk all about what is safe, what isn't safe, what strategy to use for this that or the other and frankly don't have enough time to want to learn. I want to be able to go somewhere say here's my car, here's the spec, make sure it idles smoothly with these cams in, make sure it starts and runs properly from cold, make sure it does the same from warm, make sure the fuelling/timing/whatever is spot on in each gear from 1000rpm through to 7800rpm and make sure it's not going to melt the first time I use it on track, thank you very much.

please tell us all where this Inca Tuning Shop of Gold is so we may bath in it's tuning goodness?

[slindborg]

Bear in mind that 'many' of these so called 'tuners' might just regard this as a megasquirt style of setup and decline to use it Some might actually be useful and use it though.

Edited by slindborg, 19 April 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[Bargi]

Matt are you fitting The LSJ engine onto your car ? Mines booked in for fiting and mapping towards the end of August

Well, the hybrid B207R with some LSJ bits and LSJ ECU. Yes. One day. In the next year. Or two. Or three. That's why the car has been SORN'd since the start of the year. To be honest, I'm hoping the garage, the car and the engine get struck by a meteorite in the meantime and solve the problem, as I can't be arsed with any of them. That's the problem, I can't be arsed with this horrible forged Z22SE and Stage 3 map (see, maybe the Peter reflash would hep that). But then I can't be arsed to do anything about it by fitting the factory style engine. Easier to just curse at the car and all of the bits on the rare occasion I have to go into the garage.

and to throw another spanner DG is apparently adapting an aftermarket ECU to Harroped car as well...

think he might be a bit busy with other stuff.

True, very true

[smiley]

That's fine and long may you have the choice and ability to DIY it and enjoy doing it. I know how to (or at least used to) drive the car to something approaching it's limits and that's all I want to know. I know fcuk all about calibrating engines, know fcuk all about what is safe, what isn't safe, what strategy to use for this that or the other and frankly don't have enough time to want to learn. I want to be able to go somewhere say here's my car, here's the spec, make sure it idles smoothly with these cams in, make sure it starts and runs properly from cold, make sure it does the same from warm, make sure the fuelling/timing/whatever is spot on in each gear from 1000rpm through to 7800rpm and make sure it's not going to melt the first time I use it on track, thank you very much.

Interesting.
So who´s going to be the first to buy the kitty, drive it to CS/MMG/Slindy stage 1 on the basemap with above message and see how much it hurts?

Edited by smiley, 19 April 2013 - 01:36 PM.