2116 replies to this topic

[TFD]

Partial Throttle Help

 

Ok people, 

There's this thing I cant get a hold off. Full throttle etc. is all sorted but I have this issue with partial throttle and boost. Normaly you can have a "load" map which creates a 3D -map of boost/rpm/load. In OBD this is not the case.

 

What I have is an 13XX AFR while at 0,5 bar boost at 3000rpm on partial throttle. On full throttle the rpm/boost map at 0,5 bar/3000 rpm gives me a nice 11.7 AFR.

 

So the crosshair in the Map/RPM table is on the same spot but load is different. Now the only thing yo can alter here is the transient tabel.

 

Below you see I get a 3 degree knock probably due to 13xx AFR while at 0,5 bar boost.

 

 

Below you see the transient tab taken at peak throttle possition:

 

Now... can anyone help me out here on partial load (I'm looking for a load map.... #&*&^%$).

 

Thank you.

 

 

[phippsy]

I use a tablet

I like it, very neat.

[tibby]

875

10 minutes - 75 Euro, i better hurry.   It's bloody expensive isn't it? Is it worth it? I have 2.2 SC uprated cams, it sounds rich and Idle is not even, very poor throttle response in low revs and especially when cold so the ECU needs a check anyhow

Did wish he did OBD tuner for Z20let 's also..... :-(

[siztenboots]

tibby whereabouts in belgium are you? you would be much better off with TeamVXRacing map and my editor.

[Exmantaa]

Partial Throttle Help

 

Ok people, 

There's this thing I cant get a hold off. Full throttle etc. is all sorted but I have this issue with partial throttle and boost. Normaly you can have a "load" map which creates a 3D -map of boost/rpm/load. In OBD this is not the case.

 

What I have is an 13XX AFR while at 0,5 bar boost at 3000rpm on partial throttle. On full throttle the rpm/boost map at 0,5 bar/3000 rpm gives me a nice 11.7 AFR.

 

So the crosshair in the Map/RPM table is on the same spot but load is different. Now the only thing yo can alter here is the transient tabel.

 

Below you see I get a 3 degree knock probably due to 13xx AFR while at 0,5 bar boost.

 

 

Below you see the transient tab taken at peak throttle possition:

 

Now... can anyone help me out here on partial load (I'm looking for a load map.... #&*&^%$).

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

Did you actively log where you are in the transient table when this happens? Transient is very basic described in the manual, but think it's a lot of trial and error

[TFD]

Yup, that's what I'm affraid off. A 3D load map would be easier to deal with. But yes, I'm logging all the events and I seem to find a sort of pattern in the transient map.

[Exmantaa]

Ah (could not see the pic at work...)

 

Can you also log the target AFR at that point?

You can richen-up the fuel; throttle fly is already at 100% and the other one is enrichment time.

[tibby]

tibby whereabouts in belgium are you? you would be much better off with TeamVXRacing map and my editor.

Hello, thanks for the offer. I'm happy with my mapping/tuner for the z20let. When driving NA in the early days, did had also OBD tuner on it. It was fun to tinker with . That's what i miss..... Now, i need to drive 250km (one way) to my RR when wanting something (performance wise) changed.... :-( With OBD tuner it's much more easier...... kind regards

[phippsy]

Logged a short 15 minute drive this evening after work but the data doesnt really mean much to me at the minute. Got a lot of learning to do over the next couple of weeks

[smiley]

The manual is not really pointed to detailed explanantion, so just shoot away.

There are no stupid questions, and there will be dozens of people reading over your shoulder, who do not dare ask themselves.

Don't hold back

[phippsy]

Wouldnt know where to start Smiley. Im new to all this and i guess its going to be a steep learning curve. Ive gotten to grips with the mechanicals as ive done an engine swap previously and now a stage 2 supercharger conversion but this ecu stuff is all new to me. Im looking forward to learning as i go though.

 

Im not sure what to look out for as far as knock, afr and what i should be hoping for as far as inlet temperatures. I was only revving up to about 5k. Just a short trip from the inlaws to home.

[smiley]

Im not sure what to look out for as far as knock, afr and what i should be hoping for as far as inlet temperatures.

.

First thing is to use the automated correction logic from obdtuner on afr and ignition.

Once you have done those (Chill will be along pretty soon probably to explain the best steps) run some logs and analyse for knock.

Some knock can be corrected by more afr or ignition sessions around the problem area. and some not.

If not, you will need to manually correct knock.

 

Once all is good, then start looking at extracting more power (if desired)

 

Here's one of Chills older post on the AFR proces:

 

AFR Process:  1) Start fuel learning session (PC can be turned off at this point)  2) Eml should light as soon as you hit the throttle.  3) As you drive the car the eml will stay off as the cells are learnt.  4) Once you are happy the eml is off much more than on, switch PC on do not turn the engine off.  5) Click file save calibration as fuel learn 1.  6) Now click on measurements and process measurements this may take a minute or 2.  7) Select smooth and auto update non learnt cells. (save file)  8) Click program ECU  6,7 & 8 can be done from the saved file.  This sounds a lot but it only takes a few minutes.  The priority is alway to save before switching off or the data is lost.  To see if the changes have been made open the program twice open the base on one  program and connect the PC to ECU and select read ECU.  You can compair the two fuel maps.

Edited by smiley, 13 September 2016 - 09:08 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Between steps 4 and 5 you should read the Ecu which will bring up a extra table You can see your fuel learned cells with boxes ( coloured )

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Knock, power, ignition is a little more involved You can do this over a wide range ( blanket tuning ) which is not as good Or more detailed but this takes a long time doing smaller area in the ignition setting Probably best to do a bit of blanket tuning first before getting more detailed But basically your trying to increase the ignition without causing knock, As ignition is increased normally power goes up but you need to add ignition gradually and confirm in logs and power runs things are all good and not causing knock You should also know false knock is quite often detected caused by roads and undertray S or exhausts etc

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

When you have found peak ignition without knock pull it down across the hole range by 1 degree ( safety margin )

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

It's also worth mentioning you can have knock from to little ignition aswell as to much

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

The blue line here in the power run is the ignition



There is no knock detected so the Ecu dosent pull ignition

When knock is detected the Ecu pulls the ignition

And the ignition looks like this

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

You can also use the logging function in a similar way for none wot mapping

[phippsy]

Cheers smiley and chill, I'm looking forward to having a proper play around with the software at the weekend. I've saved my original calibration file should I need it and I'll probably back it up somewhere safe. Sounds like a fuel learning session will be my starting point then. I'm using my laptop at the minute. Is there a preferred tablet that folks are using?

[smiley]

Not preferred, but it has to run the full version of windows, to be able to run the obdtuner client.

Both Chill and me got the Tesco connect 7" with windows 8.1, as that was cheap at the time.

 

Those small tablets usually only have a single micro usb connection.

So that is either for charging, or connecting to the ecu.

(or use bluetooth and a dongle for data, and the connector for charging)

 

If you permanently mount it to your car, you can also use other gizmo's like the free obd dashboard:

https://www.microsof...ee/9wzdncrfjz1b

Edited by smiley, 13 September 2016 - 10:19 PM.