677 replies to this topic

[chris_uk]

Yea. Probably be a good laugh too.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Yea, i know corner exit is important but when you are racing a car which is just ultimatly faster down the straights even if you had a good corner exit it just means the overtake will come further along the straight (if you are infront of the faster car) or the gap will increase (if your behind) which leads onto that yoyo effect i talked about before. when you have 2 cars which are equal in straightaway speeds the corner exit naturally becomes more and more important. The longer the straight after a corner the more chance you have of a faster car passing you. The bigger the power difference the shorter the straight needs to be.

Mark has already said that hes faster than them in the corners but on the straights he just doesnt have the pace to keep up, even if he did have a good corner exit he might gain 5/6 mph from a good corner exit to a bad one but if he needs another 10/15mph you can have the best corner exit ever in mankinds history but he still wont catch the guy infront. (I used them figures as an example they are not fact before anyone bites my head off)

Unlike time attack which is all about a making space for a clear lap and getting the fastest time on said clear track, mark is actually racing for position so they are allowed to block him, dive down his inside and generally make it very difficult for him. You have to be 10x more aware of someone coming down your inside trying to snatch that position.

I think you're missing the point a little though Chris. Even if the car is a little quicker on the straights if Mark corners faster and exits brave then Mark will start the striaght 10-15mph faster than the other car potentially. Park straight is pretty much uphill so it will be tough for the other car to claim that MPH back and Mark could even pull away from him at this point.... Even if he eventually reels Mark in it'll be too late AND Mark can block too anyways. I'm confident Mark will do VERY well at Cadwell, his car and driving style are suited to it he just has to be brave!!!! I think Coppice is a flat corner in an NA, or maybe just a comfort dab.

[chris_uk]

Just going from the experiences ive had with MSV there are some very handy cars. Race prepped clios with sequential boxes etc.. And lets face it.. They are not exactly sh*t in the corners. I dont doubt mark will do well at any track he drives but he needs to get the same power/weight output if he wants to have a chance of standing on more podiums.

[siztenboots]

a nice vocky special in the back

[fiveoclock]

Chris,

If Mark was already 100% on his corners then more power would be the immediate answer but he already admits some of his lines have room for improvement and there is time to be had there.

More power is always nice to have Chris but finding free time from driving, corner exit speeds stc. is just as important.

Thing is though Mike I can get more power by the 11th (its all in progress) but I'm not going to learn much in 12 days. The learning/trackcraft thing is something for medium term, power I can get short term and, lets face it, it aint going to make me slower.

[fiveoclock]

.

Edited by fiveoclock, 29 April 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[chris_uk]

The one way to see if more power is needed is by looking at telemetry and seeing what throttle input is being used. if the throttle is at 95% above most of the time yet still isnt getting anywhere then he needs more power. If however it floated around the 70% mark id suggest more work on the track. But i put money on the throttle being used on the higher end of the scale.. Dont forget its a standard NA with good downforce its just 145 bhp!

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Chris,

If Mark was already 100% on his corners then more power would be the immediate answer but he already admits some of his lines have room for improvement and there is time to be had there.

More power is always nice to have Chris but finding free time from driving, corner exit speeds stc. is just as important.

Thing is though Mike I can get more power by the 11th (its all in progress) but I'm not going to learn much in 12 days. The learning/trackcraft thing is something for medium term, power I can get short term and, lets face it, it aint going to make me slower.

Obviously more power isn't going to make you slower so if you can get it; get it! But you'll find more time with a track day with Malcolm Edison sat next to you

There were corners I was exiting at Snetterton (turn 1 for instance) by around 10mph faster than cliffie after I spent a day's tuition with Malcolm. Mine was a standard engine with stage II M62 on road tyres, Mike's a Harrop'd Vocky engine on semi slicks. Using this we choped a ton of time out of laps that Cliffie had considered fairly maximised until our data comparisons. Do you have any GPS data systems on your car?

I know the power differential meant Cliffie then put in some MONSTER lap times far in advance of what I can manage but the power differential in question here is substantial and in your case is 50+% less and as said in the other post 10-15mph at the start of Park is going to help big time!

If I could afford it I'd test before every event with a tutor to optomise laps.

Think Malcolm cost me around £300 for the day and was worth every penny (excuse the pun ). I have his details if you want them

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

The one way to see if more power is needed is by looking at telemetry and seeing what throttle input is being used. if the throttle is at 95% above most of the time yet still isnt getting anywhere then he needs more power. If however it floated around the 70% mark id suggest more work on the track.

But i put money on the throttle being used on the higher end of the scale.. Dont forget its a standard NA with good downforce its just 145 bhp!

Throttle is completely on or completely off 90% of the time on track for me. bar the odd bit of feathering mid bend which isn't much I can't think of an opportunity when anybody would drive at 70%

[Goosenka]

There is no question of Mark's committment and is overall ability. Given it's his first time racing head to head it is amazing to witness his natural skill at racing rather than just setting fast laps. No doubt when you add in other cars you are battling against a different mind set as well. I think given the ideal, tuition around the tracks ahead of a race would be great but the situation dictates as it is in time restraints etc. Upping the power I think will harness confidence more and just knowing you have poor grunt changes mindset again. Just my feelings and clearly not a technically based answer ::

[Dave E]

Being brave round coppice is all well and good but you have to make sure you don't compromise your entry and speed into the two right handers before the back straight. That deficit is then carried and amplified along the whole straight. SteveA did a comparison between our best laps that showed he was faster than me round coppice yet I exited onto the back straight faster and made up time, I put this down to deliberately sacrificing coppice for entry to the first right. But what do I know

[chris_uk]

The one way to see if more power is needed is by looking at telemetry and seeing what throttle input is being used. if the throttle is at 95% above most of the time yet still isnt getting anywhere then he needs more power. If however it floated around the 70% mark id suggest more work on the track.

But i put money on the throttle being used on the higher end of the scale.. Dont forget its a standard NA with good downforce its just 145 bhp!

Throttle is completely on or completely off 90% of the time on track for me. bar the odd bit of feathering mid bend which isn't much I can't think of an opportunity when anybody would drive at 70%

I was just using it as an example to put a point across.

[chris_uk]

That said tho the more powerful a car the less time you will be at full throttle. So depending on the track i think its possible to see 70% from drivers.

[cnrandall]

Chris,

If Mark was already 100% on his corners then more power would be the immediate answer but he already admits some of his lines have room for improvement and there is time to be had there.

More power is always nice to have Chris but finding free time from driving, corner exit speeds stc. is just as important.

Thing is though Mike I can get more power by the 11th (its all in progress) but I'm not going to learn much in 12 days. The learning/trackcraft thing is something for medium term, power I can get short term and, lets face it, it aint going to make me slower.

Some things that I do that might help... Often I'll search out for in car footage of relevant cars with pro or semi-pro drivers on the track I'm about to do and sit and watch over and over. So you're going to Cadwell, here is you're dream ticket Semi-pro driver in a virtually identical car package to yours.

Also, read the autosport guides, even if you have been to the track before you might learn something. Visualise turning laps on the track, close your eyes and do this real time, it really helps!

[chris_uk]

Funny when i suggested sitting in the car in quiet driving the track in your head to people ive been blanked and dismissed. But i bet now you have said it every fcuker will be sat in the pits doing exactly this.

Edited by chris_uk, 29 April 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[cnrandall]

Funny when i suggested sitting in the car in quiet driving the track in your head to people ive been blanked and dismissed. But i bet now you have said it every fcuker will be sat in the pits doing exactly this.

That's because 90% of what you say is bollocks ;-)

[techieboy]

Sorry Chris, I was visualising my reply, in my head.

[fiveoclock]

Chris,

If Mark was already 100% on his corners then more power would be the immediate answer but he already admits some of his lines have room for improvement and there is time to be had there.

More power is always nice to have Chris but finding free time from driving, corner exit speeds stc. is just as important.

Thing is though Mike I can get more power by the 11th (its all in progress) but I'm not going to learn much in 12 days. The learning/trackcraft thing is something for medium term, power I can get short term and, lets face it, it aint going to make me slower.

Some things that I do that might help... Often I'll search out for in car footage of relevant cars with pro or semi-pro drivers on the track I'm about to do and sit and watch over and over. So you're going to Cadwell, here is you're dream ticket Semi-pro driver in a virtually identical car package to yours.

Also, read the autosport guides, even if you have been to the track before you might learn something. Visualise turning laps on the track, close your eyes and do this real time, it really helps!

Thanks, I shall view this many times!! I've done Cadwell once on a bike 15 years ago!!!!

[chris_uk]

Funny when i suggested sitting in the car in quiet driving the track in your head to people ive been blanked and dismissed. But i bet now you have said it every fcuker will be sat in the pits doing exactly this.

That's because 90% of what you say is bollocks ;-)

What you just said was 100% bollocks.

There has been many times ive said things which have been dismissed which has then been reiterated by someone whos deemed as knowing what there on about and all of a sudden hes the best thing since sliced bread.

It must mean something if i can jump on track for the first ever time in my life and be just as fast as the 'fast drivers' who have been doing it for years.

[rob999]

Time to get out there then Chris