4396 replies to this topic

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I will be impressed if you can get near to Dale in the Exige 350 sport. Its a very quick car!

Seems the same Hugh said otherwise Moving target

[Zoobeef]

Tough crowd here on forum nowadays, did I mention I won

 

Not to take anything away from your win! Well done, trying to push on cold tyres takes alot to keep it all together.

 

It's just that others will up their game, no-one is happy sitting in 2nd and lower. So to be prepared you need to up yours and I always start at the cheapest thing and work my way up!

Edited by Zoobeef, 21 August 2017 - 09:08 AM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

1 horse race 😄

  I dont think anyone would want to take away anything from Chris on actually going out there and having a go but if you are going to put it all over social media you have to take the rough with the smooth and it is true to say you dont actually have any direct competition. Reading the regs on Javelin I would actually place your car in A1. The B2 class "Your average trackday vehicle, a medium level of performance enhancing parts can be fitted" This is not an engine swapped car with a huge SC running over double stock power.    If you look at the overall results ignoring the Atom which is a silly thing to pretend to be competing in that puts you 13th but 6 seconds off the pace. If you took on some tuition and advice you could eat into that and that would be a real achievement to be proud of. Surely it would be more enjoyable as well to feel that you are actually competing? Hughcam is only 3 seconds behind you with 190BHP on tap in his Exige too. In fact everyone quicker is in the daft stuff so he has actually done really very well.    And hold your fecking wheel properly!  

You should also read the regulations my car will never be A1 because it's not 4wd and it has no roll cage It could be considered a A2 car but all year with the acception of Anglesey B2 is a quicker class And thirdly the organisers have the final say on class and it's a B2 car Power has nothing to do with regulations It has to be on road legal tires which it is

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 21 August 2017 - 09:17 AM.

[james_ly]

Also throttle control. Hear a lot of wheelspin, not sure if you're noticing it, as it's the snap back that's sending the rear around, dienst look like you're expecting it.

 

Yep, in the video I can hear the inside wheel spin up for a second or so, then it snaps and you react with opposite lock. As soon as you hear the revs flare if you lift a fraction you might not have to countersteer.

 

I still think wider rears will help though, more traction and a shift towards a bit of understeer which might give you more confidence in the car (e.g. it looks pretty lively when heavy braking!)  

[Nev]

do you think a lsd would help ??  heard mixed reviews about them

Yep I'd think so. In my car when I fitted the Quaife I found: 1. Easier to detect when one is getting getting close to the limit of traction on the rear end. 2. Better rear end control/feel on tight corners like round-abouts. 3. It may possibly have helped me out when I've spun up the rear end a few occasions, though this is more nominal I think. The benefit of point 1 above (in conjunction with setting my geo carefully) is that I can safely promote mild oversteer on corners now by adding throttle (without both wheels snapping away). Without throttle my car slightly understeers. So the diff has allowed quite a bit more control, although on narrow roads I don't often use this it would be much more usable for you on a 3 lane wide track I expect. I find no negatives from installing it, although the feeling (best described as 4 wheel steering on corners) took me ages to get used to.

Edited by Nev, 21 August 2017 - 09:56 AM.

[Nev]

PS: I hope you don't let the armchair critics get to you, I doubt many of them understand the violence of 400+ ft/lb per Ton on cold tyres. No doubt if they posted up videos of their mistakes we could all tell them what they did wrong and how they should improve.

Edited by Nev, 21 August 2017 - 09:55 AM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

PS: I hope you don't let the armchair critics get to you, I doubt many of them understand the violence of 400+ ft/lb per Ton on cold tyres. No doubt if they posted up videos of their mistakes we could all tell them what they did wrong and how they should improve.

It's not the reaction I expected I've worked hard since 2012 on the car to make it what it is today, took quite a lot of critism along that way, then when you try and prove what created against others it's all the car, so You can't win, I've never claimed to be a racing driver and if I was I wouldent be in a vx220 that's for sure so I guess I'm in the same boat as anyone else that enjoys speed and competition, just having fun and enjoying what I've put together and now proving it on track, don't think there to many people that can say they have done that I am proud of what I've achieved with the car and on track on limited resources, So if I'm happy that's what really matters, and I've learnt a lot on my journey

[chris_uk]

PS: I hope you don't let the armchair critics get to you, I doubt many of them understand the violence of 400+ ft/lb per Ton on cold tyres. No doubt if they posted up videos of their mistakes we could all tell them what they did wrong and how they should improve.

 

 

"armchair critics" ??! ..most of the people giving advice here are people who have done many many many trackday's, also.. its all valid information that's being put across.. i don't think anyone has blatantly shot chris down or being out of order.. 

 

how many trackdays have you done Nev... ? hooning about on public roads is nothing like driving on a track.. 

[chris_uk]

Dunno if lsd is the answer. Softer rear spring, slower damping, lower tyre pressure. You checking tyre temps and wear? Also throttle control. Hear a lot of wheelspin, not sure if you're noticing it, as it's the snap back that's sending the rear around, doenst look like you're expecting it.

 

It depends, making the rear soft will alleviate some of the overseer tendencies as a general rule of thumb, but making it too soft on the rear can cause the rear to be overwhelmed and create oversteer. A lot of this can be identified by "how" the car oversteers and at what point in the corner it happens. When i took Zoobeefs car out at Anglesey (I think it was) i suggested to raise the rear stiffness because i felt that the rear was squatting too much into and through corners. He tried it and reported an improvement in the oversteer he was getting.

 

My understanding of it is that it allows the weight of the car to push down onto the wheels rather than having the springs absorb the weight. Of cause this has a rolling effect on everything else like cambers, toe etc so these should be considered when doing so. 

[Captain Vimes]

You should be proud of what you've achieved. You have personally built your car, to your spec and evolved it to where it is today. You've then managed to drive it to class wins with no previous competition experience - very much a track day driver taking his track day car into sprinting. Great result! In any championship where the regs are so open there will always be questions about whether it's car or driver. The Mark's (FOC & Beefy) have both faced these questions when competing successfully in the vx but that's the nature of the competition. The best car/driver combo within the regs will win.... it doesn't really matter if it's car or driver making the difference but both have to work together successfully to win.

[Nev]

 

PS: I hope you don't let the armchair critics get to you, I doubt many of them understand the violence of 400+ ft/lb per Ton on cold tyres. No doubt if they posted up videos of their mistakes we could all tell them what they did wrong and how they should improve.

 

 

"armchair critics" ??! ..most of the people giving advice here are people who have done many many many trackday's, also.. its all valid information that's being put across.. i don't think anyone has blatantly shot chris down or being out of order.. 

 

how many trackdays have you done Nev... ? hooning about on public roads is nothing like driving on a track.. 

 

 

Fair enough, nobody has been out of order, but as usual there is always a whiff of negativity whenever any one on here manages to build/create/drive or do well...

 

Sure there will be things he (or any driver) could do better, but seeing as he won his class (again!), perhaps he just doesn't need everyone's tips.

 

I've done 3 track days, not that it has any bearing on Chris's sprint day. And thanks for letting me know that driving on a track is nothing like driving on a road as I didn't know that.

 

 

 

 

 

[SteveA]

 

Fair enough, nobody has been out of order, but as usual there is always a whiff of negativity whenever any one on here manages to build/create/drive or do well...

 

Sure there will be things he (or any driver) could do better, but seeing as he won his class (again!), perhaps he just doesn't need everyone's tips.

 

I think what some are alluding to is that Chris is doing very well in his class but with the right modifications (to either setup or technique) he would be able to compete with the very quickest in the entire competition. It shouldn't be construed negatively, more as a friendly nudge so we can find out what the VX could do at it's pinnacle.

[chris_uk]

i honestly think that Mikes TA car is still the VX to beat, at least in the UK..

 

At Anglesey Mike did a 1'14.xx around the costal circuit, if you compare that to the EVO track times leaderboard of the same layout : or to say it another way, 4 guys turned a vx220 into a car which is 2 seconds slower than a Mclaren P1.. (and we still only had 333bhp)

 

McLaren P1 1:12.6 200 Yes Ferrari 488 GTB 1:12.8 228 Yes McLaren 675LT 1:12.8 228 Yes Porsche 911 GT3 (991.2) 1:13.4 236 Yes Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:13.6 - Yes Porsche 911 Turbo S (991.1) 1:13.6 - Yes Ferrari 458 Speciale 1:14.2 198 Yes McLaren 570S 1:14.5 - Yes Porsche 911 Turbo (991.1) 1:15.2 210 Yes Aston Martin Vantage GT12 1:16.0 214 Yes Nissan GT-R (2014MY) 1:16.9 210 Yes Mercedes-AMG GT S 1:17.0 210 Yes Porsche 911 Carrera S Powerkit (991.1) 1:17.6 201 - Porsche 911 Carrera (991.1) 1:17.8 199 Yes Porsche Cayman (981) 1:18.9 209 - Aston Martin N430 1:19.1 210 -

 

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Last year i did costal in a 1:17.86 with a broken finger, on a rolling lap (track day) i think the car is quicker now and im despite the comments driving it better than last year, 

ive done many track days in the vx in different state of tune and its now harder to drive quick than it has ever been, i think i could get in to the 1:16s now

but i must say sprinting is so very different to going round and round homing in on the track the more laps you do and generally get quicker and quicker, 

 

The one lap timed thing is nothing like a track day you really are living on your witts 

 

 

[The Batman]

i honestly think that Mikes TA car is still the VX to beat, at least in the UK..

 

At Anglesey Mike did a 1'14.xx around the costal circuit, if you compare that to the EVO track times leaderboard of the same layout : or to say it another way, 4 guys turned a vx220 into a car which is 2 seconds slower than a Mclaren P1.. (and we still only had 333bhp)

 

McLaren P1 1:12.6 200 Yes Ferrari 488 GTB 1:12.8 228 Yes McLaren 675LT 1:12.8 228 Yes Porsche 911 GT3 (991.2) 1:13.4 236 Yes Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) 1:13.6 - Yes Porsche 911 Turbo S (991.1) 1:13.6 - Yes Ferrari 458 Speciale 1:14.2 198 Yes McLaren 570S 1:14.5 - Yes Porsche 911 Turbo (991.1) 1:15.2 210 Yes Aston Martin Vantage GT12 1:16.0 214 Yes Nissan GT-R (2014MY) 1:16.9 210 Yes Mercedes-AMG GT S 1:17.0 210 Yes Porsche 911 Carrera S Powerkit (991.1) 1:17.6 201 - Porsche 911 Carrera (991.1) 1:17.8 199 Yes Porsche Cayman (981) 1:18.9 209 - Aston Martin N430 1:19.1 210 -

 

 

 

Are these from rolling start? if so thats interesting to see!

[SteveA]

 

Are these from rolling start? if so thats interesting to see!

 

 

Click the links that say yes.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

i would like to see mikes lap if its available

[SteveA]

I think I probably still have the Racelogic data from it but would only share if Mike is OK with that.

 

Also the P1 does a 1:11.2 on that video.

 

To put Anglesey into context the lap record for my car (140bhp) with better tyres (A048s) and brakes is 1:15.7

Edited by SteveA, 21 August 2017 - 01:20 PM.

[Doctor Ed]

Dunno if lsd is the answer. Softer rear spring, slower damping, lower tyre pressure. You checking tyre temps and wear? Also throttle control. Hear a lot of wheelspin, not sure if you're noticing it, as it's the snap back that's sending the rear around, doenst look like you're expecting it.

  It depends, making the rear soft will alleviate some of the overseer tendencies as a general rule of thumb, but making it too soft on the rear can cause the rear to be overwhelmed and create oversteer. A lot of this can be identified by "how" the car oversteers and at what point in the corner it happens. When i took Zoobeefs car out at Anglesey (I think it was) i suggested to raise the rear stiffness because i felt that the rear was squatting too much into and through corners. He tried it and reported an improvement in the oversteer he was getting.   My understanding of it is that it allows the weight of the car to push down onto the wheels rather than having the springs absorb the weight. Of cause this has a rolling effect on everything else like cambers, toe etc so these should be considered when doing so. 

Agree on all of the above. I guess my point was more that jumping to "you need an LSD" is way too premature. There's a massive list to work through when tweaking suspension. Print a checklist off the net, go to track day, start tweaking down the list

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I'm not that serious about it and you deffinately don't get a lot of chance on the day to make big changes, the most i messed with settings is a click either way from where they were set, My tires were shagged even before I went to the sprint, I lost the edge at pembrey on the tire so I knew I was going to be closer to the competition than what I was at croft ( 3.2 seconds ahead ) on new tires, and the car was on rails plus I did a track day before to home in Where as at Anglesey just turned up did sighting laps and a practise run wear there was fluid on the track so was a waste of time. And on top of that Dale came to Anglesey with some big wing and splitter updates and a chap with a Komotec 430 hp upgrade on his exige v6 cup car

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 21 August 2017 - 04:44 PM.