363 replies to this topic

[vocky]

Neil, you can try mine anytime.

That will show you that you want CF and SC all in one go

I already know the stage 2 sc is slower and less responsive than my 2.5 throttle bodied motor, so just need to see what the suspension would be like

[techieboy]

Come and try mine then. CF setup and faster than yours.

[rob999]

Jesus it's the battle of the garage queens

[techieboy]

My car is never treated Royally so by definition cannot be considered a garage queen. Anyway, if Vocky comes over and takes the VX out it'll probably result in a conversation that might motivate me to do something with it.

[rob999]

How about a Swan meet then? Remember the days of Beds/Bucks meets?

[Scuffers]

LOL, guess I should have expected this.... So, having built and raced some of the very fastest Elise based race cars around the world, I obviously know nothing about ARB's? OK, O great experts, show me the cars with these wonder setups on them, along with their laptimes so we can all fawn over them. I'll start: Snett 300 1:57 Brands Indy 0:47 Cadwell 1:31 Donington 1:08 or perhaps some further afield: Bathurst 2:15 Wakefield Park 0:59 Eastern creek 1:33 Philip Island 1:56 so, show us what you have?

[vocky]

My car is never treated Royally so by definition cannot be considered a garage queen.

Anyway, if Vocky comes over and takes the VX out it'll probably result in a conversation that might motivate me to do something with it.

it is about time I pestered you to tweak something

[chris_uk]

LOL,

guess I should have expected this....

So, having built and raced some of the very fastest Elise based race cars around the world, I obviously know nothing about ARB's?

OK, O great experts, show me the cars with these wonder setups on them, along with their laptimes so we can all fawn over them.

I'll start:

Snett 300 1:57
Brands Indy 0:47
Cadwell 1:31
Donington 1:08

or perhaps some further afield:

Bathurst 2:15
Wakefield Park 0:59
Eastern creek 1:33
Philip Island 1:56

so, show us what you have?

im pretty certain this time that lap times come down to more than an ARB setup..

[JG]

LOL,

guess I should have expected this....

So, having built and raced some of the very fastest Elise based race cars around the world, I obviously know nothing about ARB's?

OK, O great experts, show me the cars with these wonder setups on them, along with their laptimes so we can all fawn over them.

I'll start:

Snett 300 1:57
Brands Indy 0:47
Cadwell 1:31
Donington 1:08

or perhaps some further afield:

Bathurst 2:15
Wakefield Park 0:59
Eastern creek 1:33
Philip Island 1:56

so, show us what you have?

I think you're on too many people's ignore list to have raised a reaction with your first posts

[JG]

How about a Swan meet then? Remember the days of Beds/Bucks meets?

Go on then, how about the 27th or 28th April for the next beds meet?

[cnrandall]

Consider this,

Makes little odds what steel is used to make an arb , for a given size/gauge they will have almost identical 'stiffness'

So,unless you change the pivot points, etc, one man's 1" Arb will be much are same as another...

Adding blades, etc is all well and good, but do you really need that level of adjustability and at what cost in both money and life?

I am also not a fan or rear Arb's, all they do is make the backend snappy at the limits, and really compromise traction buy unloading the inside rear, (and then some would sugest you have to have an lsd ).

Typically, a 1" Arb is man enough for 99% of users, although forma road car, it's somewhat OTT

Actually, I had Mike Pilbeam run the test on the 1" EP bar (which, if you remember we first developed on my car way back when), and we found that the flat plates at the end twisted causing a falling rate and also depleting the overall rate of the bar. This is why the Pilbeam one can be made lighter but achieve the same rate, as the end plates are a better design and don't twist. Interestingly enough, what we arrived at back then as being the correct rate for a 750kg race Exige on A048's was near as damn it identical to what Mike calculated the ideal rate to be.

[cnrandall]

Winstar is right - the grade of steel isnt the factor in sizing an ARB to get a specific rate. the main thing is the OD of the tube or bar (given that the other factors are determined by the fit in the car)

the OD is so important as its function in the stiffness v displacement graph is to the fourth power. So go up a few mm and the stiffness increases immensely. the ID makes less difference as the function is OD^4 - ID^4..

this means you can make a bar hollow and have little effect on the stiffness - but you do make it more responsive.

the question isnt "is stiff rate better than a soft rate" the question is "is the rate "right". Grip is destroyed by tyre contact patch load variations and so much of the work we do in defining set-up parameters and testing is around controlling this - this is the driver for getting the rates "right".

my point here isnt to haggle over which bar is better than another but to explain that the springs, bar and dampers need to be well-matched to work together. They also need to be set at a rate that suits the use the car gets, the tyres, the driver etc etc.

there are very good rules of thumb that help us work on the proportion of stiffness that comes from an ARB - both front and back. if Scuffers has had problems with a rear bar then it is likely that the bar was not well-suited to the car set-up.

our set-up suits some people because they buy into the dynamics philosophy i have explained on here - for others they like another approach and thats fine. Money is certainly a factor and the kit we sell isnt the cheapest, partly because we provide 2 bars with all the fittings rather than one!

cheers

Simon

Its all very well buying into a design philosophy but that doesn't necessarily help absolute performance. One thing I have learnt in racing is you need to be prepared to ditch your own ideas, no matter how bright they may have first appeared, otherwise you can get awfully bogged down by them.

[joshua]

One of the best things about the Lotus chassis is how well it works without being super stiff, this is where the CF set up scores, it manages to control roll while remaining compliant. I have the CF front bar and my own rear bar (an uprated front bar on the rear). After four Elise derivatives and a myriad of different suspension setups this is the first time I've been really happy with one of them. As for being snappy, not at all, my car is so much more progressive and composed than with the stiff springs, nitrons and a standard arb fitted previously.

[GeorgeBC]

Couldnt believe the difference the elise shop 2.25 x stiffer arb made to my car. Been in a couple of CF set up cars on track and driven one. Its each to everyones own opinion but i wouldnt part with my £250 arb for it never mind pay the premium on top. That said my set up is sh*t on the road so it would be nice to have the best of both worlds if i did many road miles.

[P11 COV]

George, is that this one?

http://www.elisepart...anti-roll-bars/

[techieboy]

That's the one I had - the non-sliding droplink option (i.e. for use with the standard droplinks). Last seen melting in Joe's original VX.

[MrSimba]

Been in a couple of CF set up cars on track and driven one.

Think we saw how well that went George!

[GeorgeBC]

I bought it from elise shop i think a couple of years ago but yes i think thats the same/similar. I had RYN asking about them last weekend and i advised him to buy that one. Made a big difference to my car, i just leave it on the middle hole. Buy new drop links as well as they are only about £15 each and i had to cut my nuts off as they wouldnt budge. You need two drop links

[GeorgeBC]

Been in a couple of CF set up cars on track and driven one.

Think we saw how well that went George! :lol:/>

That wasnt any fault from any set up though. I wasnt judging any car around that circuit so any opinion i have is from a much better circuit with a variety of corners. Once again its all IMO and i defo dont know nearly as much as others in this thread. Just how i felt after spending a couple of hundred quid.

Edited by GeorgeBC, 13 March 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[Darcini]

........and i had to cut my nuts off.........

Tbh I think I'll put up with the understeer, but I admire your commitment G