76 replies to this topic

[peteslag]

I have 16/17 wheel combo on my VXT. The quantums are set up 120mm front, 130mm rear. I'm not sure if this is the ideal set up but it sure does seem to work well. My plan was to try it at different heights but I'm very happy with it as it is.

[Scuffers]

I have 16/17 wheel combo on my VXT. The quantums are set up 120mm front, 130mm rear. I'm not sure if this is the ideal set up but it sure does seem to work well. My plan was to try it at different heights but I'm very happy with it as it is.

that's about the right place, don't be suckered into slamming the car...

[peteslag]

I have 16/17 wheel combo on my VXT. The quantums are set up 120mm front, 130mm rear. I'm not sure if this is the ideal set up but it sure does seem to work well. My plan was to try it at different heights but I'm very happy with it as it is.

that's about the right place, don't be suckered into slamming the car...

After a fair bit of research I found that making the car lower didn't necessarily make it handle better. Especially with this type of damper.

[techieboy]

Just that everything else seems to have had problems on the VX at some point in their development cycle with denting upper wishbones on bump. I assume there's some presumption that if it works on an Elise/Exige then it'll do exactly the same on the VX without further adjustment and that they've never actually seen the more heavily recessed upper wishbone mounts on the VX's subframe.

ah, ok...

know what you mean, although ideal damper lengths between VX and Elise are the same.

if you ghetto the point of wishbone contact, the campers are too short and should have bumped out before then, also, to get to that point, the car is being run too low for the spring and damping rates chosen.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to sound like a loaded question, if that's how you read it. It's just I've gone through 4 upper wishbones that have been dented in the same place where they've fouled the overhanging subframe. One pair with what I assume had always been the stock Bilsteins (so standard ride heights) and a second pair with (probably) some early'ish VX NTR's at a variety of different ride heights including a stupidly low setting which I ran for a while. I actually mentioned that problem to Geary (and obviously Guy @ Nitron) in his pre-Quantum days and said it wasn't an uncommon issue on the VX, though he'd never heard of it at the time.

[Scuffers]

I have 16/17 wheel combo on my VXT. The quantums are set up 120mm front, 130mm rear. I'm not sure if this is the ideal set up but it sure does seem to work well. My plan was to try it at different heights but I'm very happy with it as it is.

that's about the right place, don't be suckered into slamming the car...

After a fair bit of research I found that making the car lower didn't necessarily make it handle better. Especially with this type of damper.

it's not so much the dampers per say, as the suspension kinematics, once you head lower than ~120 it all starts to go horrible, same issue for the current Elise's and 2-11's, the roll centres are just wrong etc...

This is why EP do GT uprights, so that you can start to run lower heights without the issues, and hence why Mikes car can now run as low as it does and still very much work.

All that said, even with them, if your going to run that low, you HAVE to run high spring rates etc as they now have far less window to work in.

[peteslag]

Cheers for that Scuffers, good to know my instincts (blind guess work more like) were correct. Definitely a damper that you shouldn't mess with the ride height too much.

[NickB787]

I have the single way quantum and I am really impressed with them, for adjustment the clicks really work well you can feel the difference from just 1 or 2 clicks. I need to get it on track now to get the setup just right. I came from Gaz Mono they were good for what they were. I originally looked at the Quantiums a few years ago but wasn't certain but in hindsight wish I had done it then. I don't believe they have to be rebuilt every 2 years :-) either.

[2-20]

I have the single way quantum and I am really impressed with them, for adjustment the clicks really work well you can feel the difference from just 1 or 2 clicks. I need to get it on track now to get the setup just right. I came from Gaz Mono they were good for what they were. I originally looked at the Quantiums a few years ago but wasn't certain but in hindsight wish I had done it then. I don't believe they have to be rebuilt every 2 years :-) either.

What spring rates did you choose ?

[NickB787]

I was recommended 475/150 and 575/200 for my setup

[Way-aye-pete]

Well i have just taken the leap and purchased a set of zero's with the road setup Will report back once recieved, fitted and setup..... Any recomendation for ride height on standrad wheels? Pete

[jules_s]

Talked suspension and damping all afternoon today. Presumably these Zeros are custom built to an agreed spec then given the debate about spring rates and stiffer ARB's?

[peteslag]

Well i have just taken the leap and purchased a set of zero's with the road setup

Will report back once recieved, fitted and setup.....

Any recomendation for ride height on standrad wheels?

Pete

You might be better off keeping the ride height standard.

[Scuffers]

Well i have just taken the leap and purchased a set of zero's with the road setup

Will report back once recieved, fitted and setup.....

Any recomendation for ride height on standrad wheels?

Pete

You might be better off keeping the ride height standard.

not a bad idea....

-10 or 20mm is OK, but will require re-geo'ing...

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Trying to learn. When someone says that Nitrons do not have enough droop, what does that mean? And before I'm shot down, yes, I read some books (and they were even some amongst them about suspension :happy:/> ). As far as I understand total travel of a damper (or better, wheel, but we're talking dampers here and they determine the travel of the wheel) is droop + bump. Droop is the total downward movement available from static rideheight and bump the total upward movement. How much droop and bump you actually have depends on the rideheight, which depends on -among others- spring rate, spring pre-tension and damper length. Does the remark about not enough droop then refer to the Nitrons not having enough travel in general? Or to the inability to set ride height in combination with a preferred spring rate such that enough droop is still available?

something i posted elsewhere...


Just to illustrate the point, this is Syd's car with his new Quantum Blacks installed at sensible (road) ride heights (~125).

left is at ride hight, right is at full droop:


As you probably can't read the tape, it's showing some ~80mm of droop at the back wheels, whilst at the same time having plenty of bump travel available (even when using relatively soft springs).


As a comparison, this is his old Nitron 1 ways lined up against the new Quantum Blacks:




As you can see, they are not only longer fully open, but have way more 'travel' so that the closed lengths are not compromised (and actually marginally shorter than the Nitrons above).

here's a short video clip showing the level of droop:

http://vimeo.com/38482904

and looking from the back, this is the point where the wheel is still just in contact with the ground:




Obviously when cornering, the 'loaded' side would be down more, but you see the point, with less droop you would quickly get to the point where the unloaded wheel is off the ground, at which point it's doing nothing useful (and when people then complain they need an LSD)

Hmmmmmmm, I'm not looking to get into a 'who's best' shootout as Quantum and Nitron both turn out quality gear but to address a small point in your 'comparison'....

I don't think the comparison is particulary fair tbh. You've taken a very basic NTR shock (outdated spec too I'd wager) and compared it to a very modern version of your own shock equiped with helper springs to increase the tyre contact of the unweighted wheel.

I've got a 2011 spec NTR 46 shock with helpers and I've got 95mm of droop/travel on the rear. Not saying that's the be all and end all just adding balance to the arguement as it suggests Nitron are lacking in this when in fact it's based on spec.

[JohnTurbo]

My old nitrons though - you jack the car up and the wheels dont drop much at all... it looks lowered even jacked up. Thats pretty mental. Still outhandles stock by a fair margin!! That said its no use having shocks which disclocate the springs when jacked up. - this is where those auxilliary springs come in - helpers, though if I understand it correctly its not going to make a world of difference - just a small improvement. I guess you could counter it with stiffness too. If the car didn't lean at all you'd not need any droop at all. ;-) I doubt there is much in it between modern Nitrons and these jobbies...and least for we who dine here.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

The spec of the Nitrons varies constantly, I guess yours are old ones then? Any servicing/rebuilds will convert them (if possible) to latest spec seals etc The helpers are on there to push the unweighted wheel down to increase tyre contact rather than stop the spring wobbling when jacked up. Tenders, helpers, terminology varies and I always get it wrong. i just stick to calling them helpers as that's the terminology Nitron use (for right or wrong...). Either way, not after a hijac, I've got no beef with Quantum gear it's very highly thought of kit!

[chris_uk]

I cant imagine the helper springs doing much pushing down of a wheel, they are only a plastic spring i bet they wouldnt even hold up a trainer without closing.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I cant imagine the helper springs doing much pushing down of a wheel, they are only a plastic spring i bet they wouldnt even hold up a trainer without closing.

Not mine buddy. Mine are 300lb Eibachs

[chris_uk]

Oh right. My gaz ones were just plastic, i assumed they were there just to stop the collar from dropping out if the car ever became so unloaded that the springs no longer made contact.

[techieboy]

As I understand it..... Helper spring = low poundage spring to keep the main spring seated on it's platforms under droop Tender spring = much higher poundage spring to act in conjunction with the main spring to give a kind of progressive rate effect