27 replies to this topic

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

 

 

geo done this morning as the rear was all over the place....16/17 OZ fitted on 888

changed the brake fluid as well ......so the car feel xtra good

[chris_uk]

You need more (.5) camber on the front pax side and less (.5) on the rear.

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

You need more (.5) camber on the front pax side and less (.5) on the rear.

 

been using this setting for donkeys years so next time ...thanks next time will alter the geo but the car feel good after my little ride on a empty kentish road   

[Scuffers]

I would be more interested to know what the front bumpsteer numbers are...

[siztenboots]

3 degrees negative camber on the rear is a lot imho

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

3 degrees negative camber on the rear is a lot imho

 

so is my setup wrong steve ?   

[chris_uk]

Oh dont listen to me then :/

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

Oh dont listen to me then :/

 

....

after 12 years the car still feel good

new this new that when will it ever end ......

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I agree with Chris.

[Exmantaa]

That's a lot of rear camber...

And Is rear toe-in not a bit too less? I run 0*15' each side, so 0*30' total toe-in rear.

 

@ Scuffers; what makes you question the bumpsteer? It's something I like to check myself, but have no clue to what I should aim for.

(There once was a Lotus bumpsteer curve around. Somewhere...)

Edited by Exmantaa, 22 May 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[Scuffers]

@ Scuffers; what makes you question the bumpsteer? It's something I like to check myself, but have no clue to what I should aim for.

(There once was a Lotus bumpsteer curve around. Somewhere...)

he's changed the wheels and springs/dampers, so ride heights and relative wishbone angles will have changed, thus almost certainly front bump will have changed and likely rear too.

[Exmantaa]

 

@ Scuffers; what makes you question the bumpsteer? It's something I like to check myself, but have no clue to what I should aim for.

(There once was a Lotus bumpsteer curve around. Somewhere...)

he's changed the wheels and springs/dampers, so ride heights and relative wishbone angles will have changed, thus almost certainly front bump will have changed and likely rear too.

 

 

That is pretty obvious, so the question stays how to check bumpsteer (ok, with a bumpsteer gauge going through the full damper travel without springs fitted) and more important; what do we aim for to get the best drive?

Edited by Exmantaa, 22 May 2013 - 11:07 PM.

[Scuffers]

 

 

@ Scuffers; what makes you question the bumpsteer? It's something I like to check myself, but have no clue to what I should aim for.

(There once was a Lotus bumpsteer curve around. Somewhere...)

he's changed the wheels and springs/dampers, so ride heights and relative wishbone angles will have changed, thus almost certainly front bump will have changed and likely rear too.

 

 

That is pretty obvious, so the question stays how to check bumpsteer (ok, with a bumpsteer gauge going through the full damper travel without springs fitted) and more important; what do we aim for to get the best drive?

 

??

 

with all due, if it's so obvious, then I assume you already know the implications and how to sort it?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

@ Scuffers; what makes you question the bumpsteer? It's something I like to check myself, but have no clue to what I should aim for. (There once was a Lotus bumpsteer curve around. Somewhere...)

he's changed the wheels and springs/dampers, so ride heights and relative wishbone angles will have changed, thus almost certainly front bump will have changed and likely rear too.

  That is pretty obvious, so the question stays how to check bumpsteer (ok, with a bumpsteer gauge going through the full damper travel without springs fitted) and more important; what do we aim for to get the best drive?

??   with all due, if it's so obvious, then I assume you already know the implications and how to sort it?

I doubt Exmantaa would be asking if he already knew.

[FLD]

 

 

 

 

@ Scuffers; what makes you question the bumpsteer? It's something I like to check myself, but have no clue to what I should aim for. (There once was a Lotus bumpsteer curve around. Somewhere...)

he's changed the wheels and springs/dampers, so ride heights and relative wishbone angles will have changed, thus almost certainly front bump will have changed and likely rear too.

 

  That is pretty obvious, so the question stays how to check bumpsteer (ok, with a bumpsteer gauge going through the full damper travel without springs fitted) and more important; what do we aim for to get the best drive?

 

??   with all due, if it's so obvious, then I assume you already know the implications and how to sort it?

 

I doubt Exmantaa would be asking if he already knew.

 

 

Even a suspension numpty like me* would expect bump steer to be affected if you changed virtually everything!  I would have to just see what its like but I would also like to know how it should be done and what any numbers actually mean.  The original answer does read a bit like when you ask your missus 'whats wrong' and you get the "well if you dont know..." response. 

 

 

*Please answer slowly in small words! 

[Scuffers]

Even a suspension numpty like me* would expect bump steer to be affected if you changed virtually everything!  I would have to just see what its like but I would also like to know how it should be done and what any numbers actually mean.  The original answer does read a bit like when you ask your missus 'whats wrong' and you get the "well if you dont know..." response. 

 

 

*Please answer slowly in small words! 

Sorry if I come across somewhat short, I an just frustrated by yet another set of posts covering the blindingly obvious that nobody whats to take the time to understand.

 

Look, I don't expect 99.9% on there to know how to setup bumpsteer, however, I do expect them to understand that if they make significant changes to the ride heights and/or wheels/tyres, then they need to do something about it, I have lost count of the number of cars that I see where it's not remotely close to being right...

 

One of the big issues here is that service providers (ie. the guys your paying to do this stuff for you) don't have a clue either, the first post on this thread demonstrates the point, they all have spent thousands buying computer alignment gear, but either said gear can't deal with bumpsteer (and to be fair, on 99% of road cars it's not a consideration as you can't do anything about it anyway), but can give you a nice colour printout of it's static geo.

 

problem is that before you get into static geo, you have to resolve the bumpsteer first, otherwise whatever you have as a static toe setting is pretty much meaningless, there's an order to how you have to do this stuff, starting with corner-weights and ride heights, and ending with static geo.

 

Now, I am not about to try and explain to you all how to measure bumpsteer, it's all too hard to explain well enough for people to get it right (and the consequences of getting it badly wrong are bad), what I am going to do though is suggest you take your cars to somebody that does know what they are doing and pay them to do the whole job, not just one bit of it.

 

worth pointing out that you do not need a several thousand £ alignment rig to do this stuff, a ball of string and some poles works just fine, it just takes time and patience.

 

Lastly, before you all jump off and head down this way, also worth mentioning that this si the very last job that should be done after you have already checked that *all* your suspension joints/hardware are 100% before you even think about anything else, otherwise you will just waste your time (and probably money too)

[Arno]

Any indications as to what's a desirable/usable range for the bump-steer on the VX/Elise chassis?

 

The rear is at least somewhat documented by Lotus in the Elise service manual on how to check and where to set:

 

 

Although it's difficult to judge how good/bad these settings are they are at least a baseline to work from.

 

But any similar information on the front suspension settings seem to be quite absent..

 

Bye, Arno.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

 

Even a suspension numpty like me* would expect bump steer to be affected if you changed virtually everything!  I would have to just see what its like but I would also like to know how it should be done and what any numbers actually mean.  The original answer does read a bit like when you ask your missus 'whats wrong' and you get the "well if you dont know..." response. 

 

 

*Please answer slowly in small words! 

Sorry if I come across somewhat short, I an just frustrated by yet another set of posts covering the blindingly obvious that nobody whats to take the time to understand.

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]I believe that's why they asked you.. To learn/understand.. thus taking the time?   [/color]

 

Look, I don't expect 99.9% on there to know how to setup bumpsteer, however, I do expect them to understand that if they make significant changes to the ride heights and/or wheels/tyres, then they need to do something about it, I have lost count of the number of cars that I see where it's not remotely close to being right...

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Rude, ok we are not experts but most of us are capable of understanding English and basic physics. [/color]

 

One of the big issues here is that service providers (ie. the guys your paying to do this stuff for you) don't have a clue either, the first post on this thread demonstrates the point, they all have spent thousands buying computer alignment gear, but either said gear can't deal with bumpsteer (and to be fair, on 99% of road cars it's not a consideration as you can't do anything about it anyway), but can give you a nice colour printout of it's static geo.

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]great, can you let us know places that do understand this dark art?[/color]

 

problem is that before you get into static geo, you have to resolve the bumpsteer first, otherwise whatever you have as a static toe setting is pretty much meaningless, there's an order to how you have to do this stuff, starting with corner-weights and ride heights, and ending with static geo.

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]that makes sense, thank you for explaining something.[/color]

 

Now, I am not about to try and explain to you all how to measure bumpsteer, it's all too hard to explain well enough for people to get it right (and the consequences of getting it badly wrong are bad), what I am going to do though is suggest you take your cars to somebody that does know what they are doing and pay them to do the whole job, not just one bit of it.

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]great, can you let us know places that do understand this dark art?[/color]

 

worth pointing out that you do not need a several thousand £ alignment rig to do this stuff, a ball of string and some poles works just fine, it just takes time and patience.

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]that makes sense also[/color]

 

Lastly, before you all jump off and head down this way, also worth mentioning that this si the very last job that should be done after you have already checked that *all* your suspension joints/hardware are 100% before you even think about anything else, otherwise you will just waste your time (and probably money too)

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Most people here take pride in maintaining their vehicle, the reason you was asked these questions are because of your expertise. If your not going to take the time to explain or help then why post and bring yourself into this?[/color]

 

 

I have never questioned your knowledge or expertise but remember when dealing with us plebs not get wound up, if you don't want to help, don't.. No one is making you post.

[Scuffers]

I have never questioned your knowledge or expertise but remember when dealing with us plebs not get wound up, if you don't want to help, don't.. No one is making you post.

 

stop getting so emotional about it...

 

my first post was to make people think, nobody learns anything being spoon-feed.

 

to answer one question though, yes, I could point you at people who can do this work, the problem with that is I will know doubt be chastised for advertising somebody and not another, and the list of people I would not want to name is vastly longer than the ones I would...

 

as the paying customer, I would expect you guys to start asking the right questions of your preferred supplier and make an informed decision.

[slindborg]

People take the 'truth and facts' about cars as an insult to their being... So anything factual and accurate that isnt what they thought/paid for means you are a cnut Its just the way ALL forums work I've noticed

 

Nice to know that you have a bastards list as well as a very very short list of non bastards