533 replies to this topic

[chris_uk]

Out of interest who's was the other car?

[JohnTurbo]

Sounds like Lees?

[Scuffers]

and once again, we are back to subjective...

 

can we please have some actual hard numbers posted up for exactly what the current Nitrons are please?

 

it's all very well saying that the 46mm ones are better/sorted etc, but that just does not cut it, what are the open and closed lengths for the VX?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Out of interest who's was the other car?

 

 

Sounds like Lees?

 

 

They are Lee's yes.

 

Also.......I owe you £20 Chris.....sorry completely forgot.

[chris_uk]

Dont worry about it.

[alexb]

There are two separate issues here. The first is the length of the damper and how that matches with the VX220, the second is how good these dampers are. I'm not qualified to say anything about the quality. I do like however that my pre-2009 Nitron 46's talk to me. At least they seem to make noises that I somehow interpret as meaningful.

 

About the length of the shocks, I'm working on my suspension anyhow and measured a couple of things and made a small drawing

 

 mini-Bump-Droop.jpg   66.37KB   15 downloads

 

So at least the Nitrons that I have (full open length 395, full closed 310) are not optimal for my VX220. On the VX220 they simply cannot make use of the full articulation of the damper. And that is a design error, assuming that these shocks were ever designed for the VX220. So it's a very valid question to ask what the open length is. That goes for all dampers for the VX220, Nitron, Quantum, Gaz whatever. And to know the articulation would be nice too, as the designer of the damper makes a choice of how that fits within the articulation of the damper that is available through the wishbone mounting points.

 

PS I fell in love with the word articulation and use it whenever I can. My Nitrons are very well articulated, thank you. How are yours? I'm feeling very articulated today!

 

[siztenboots]

perfect diagram

[Scuffers]

yup, that's pretty spot on...

 

only one question, what is the ride height?

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

There are two separate issues here. The first is the length of the damper and how that matches with the VX220, the second is how good these dampers are. I'm not qualified to say anything about the quality. I do like however that my pre-2009 Nitron 46's talk to me. At least they seem to make noises that I somehow interpret as meaningful. 
 

 

Alex, Nitron 46's were not being made in 2009   Great picture though

 

 ---------------------------------------------------

 

Right, my rear cam is off as I'm cleaning out the mess my oil breather spat everywhere Saturday so I've pulled my rear shock off and actually measured it.

 

It's hard to be exact with just a ruler due to parallax but the distance between eye centers is about 422mm.  That's a good 27mm or so more than Alex has claimed above.  I'm sure he's talking about an old spec NTR 40 tbh which bears no reflection to the Nitron 46mm which was the comparison this thread is trying to discuss....

 

I run at around 125mm ride height and when I jack the thing up (as many saw at the National) there is a TON of droop.

 

 

 

Nitron 46's (which were released in 2011) start at £1,245 + vat which is £50+ cheaper than the much smaller tube Quantum (as they don't make a 46mm shock).

 

Nitron 46's have also proved to be an excellent performance shock made by a company with a bombproof reliability record. 

 

I'm sick of the suggestion they are some sort of flawed product when I firmly believe they are the best shock available for a VX.  A claim which was supported quite well by the data collected at the National as discussed here

 

Also to add, I don't want this to look like a poke at Matt Bentley as his reputation is flawless and I fully intened to seek his services in the future. 

 

 

 

[alexb]

@Scuffers: my reference for ride height was the main chassis beam close to the door shutline. From the bottom of the panel at that location to the ground. What's in the diagram as ride height is an interpolation and not an actual measurement. I measured the actual ride height and the corresponding distance from center hub to wheelarch, jacked up the car, removed wheel and damper, measured full droop and bump from center hub to wheelarch and calculated back to ride height.

 

@JJJ: I've tried to be careful not to overstate anything and for that reason refer to these dampers as My Nitrons. I'm not sure about the history, but somehow got the impression that they have been around for quite a while. They are 46's. They started their life as 1-ways and were turned into 3-ways along the way. I'm also not sure if they were ever actually bought as VX220 dampers. I am quite happy with the dampers and without this thread would have remained happy. Ignorance is bliss. Now however I will try to improve my whole set up by more carefully matching ride height with damper length, bump/droop ratio and springs. So for me at least this is not a Nitron bashing exercise, it's more about trying to get my facts clear and getting a better car because of it.

 

 

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

@JJJ: I've tried to be careful not to overstate anything and for that reason refer to these dampers as My Nitrons. I'm not sure about the history, but somehow got the impression that they have been around for quite a while. They are 46's. They started their life as 1-ways and were turned into 3-ways along the way. I'm also not sure if they were ever actually bought as VX220 dampers. I am quite happy with the dampers and without this thread would have remained happy. Ignorance is bliss. Now however I will try to improve my whole set up by more carefully matching ride height with damper length, bump/droop ratio and springs. So for me at least this is not a Nitron bashing exercise, it's more about trying to get my facts clear and getting a better car because of it.

 

 

 

So for clarity you're saying they're dampers that were bought second or third hand and were quite possibly specced for a different car then were converted from one way to 3 way and put on a VX...?  Pretty serious shock modification right there, do you have a photo of them...?  Who modded them and when?  Do you know the original owner?

 

I'm 99.9% sure they are not going to be 46's though mate, the shocks you are describing are too old and the open length you describe is just too short.  Could you measure the body width?

 

TBH though Alex it seems a little unfair how vocal you've been concerning you comments about Nitron's design innacuracies when you are so unsure of the provinence of your own shocks, especially when you do not know which car they were specced for originally.

 

 

Here are a few points

 

[*]Ohlins and Nitron are currently the only companies offering 46mm monotubes for the VX220. 
[*]Nitron manage to do this and still remain cheaper than the standard body size monotubes offered by most companies. 
[*]Build quality is still excellent.
[*]Performance is excellent.
[*]Nitron have recently become the OEM supplier for Lotus Sport who are now fitting Nitrons as standard equipment to ALL Lotus Exige cup cars  and are currenctly negotiating carrying that over to all Sport models.
[/list]

Nitron 46's are a safe, proven bet and people can buy with confidence that their hard earned dough is going on a top quality product with the highest level of performance available for a VX

[Mike (Cliffie)]

To answer the original question; Nitron 46's are a better damper than Nitron 40's. I think I am right saying that.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

To answer the original question; Nitron 46's are a better damper than Nitron 40's. I think I am right saying that.

 

[JohnTurbo]

Now where to start in getting longer eyelets for the 40s....

[Scuffers]

LOL!

 

good question...

 

and in all of this sales pitch, we still have no clear idea what the spec's on the NTR's or 46MM ones people have are, or what is being sold as of now.

 

Jimmy, will you please drop the sales pitch and actually enter the discussion about the spec's of what has and is supplied to customers?

 

 

then perhaps work with Nitron to get some retrofit parts made up to correct the length miss-matches out there, or are you suggesting that they write them off and buy Nitron again that 'might' be the right lengths?

 

[Exmantaa]

 

 

then perhaps work with Nitron to get some retrofit parts made up to correct the length miss-matches out there, or are you suggesting that they write them off and buy Nitron again that 'might' be the right lengths?

 

 

 

   It would be so easy to simply supply longer bottom eyelets for people with old-spec Nitrons.(although fitting them onto the NTR's is something else...)

[alexb]

@JJJ: Can't measure them right now, but here's a picture. They might be 40's. I always assumed them to be 46's, but only now realize that it's piston and not body size (after going to the Nitron site). Yes, I can be wrong and no problem to admit it.

 

 

Me being vocal about the length of the damper is based on the statements made earlier that Nitron did sell dampers (old 40's only?) for the VX220 with a full open length of 395 mm. If that is the case, that is a design error. If it's not the case, I apologize for not reading correctly. You know much more about Nitrons than I do, so you can tell me what it is. In case they were sold at 395 mm for the VX220 and you disagree with it being a design error, I'm very curious about the reason Nitron made this conscious decision.

 

And as with anybody who buys dampers secondhand, I cannot honestly say they were ever bought for the VX220. I'm 100% sure that they were used on a VX220 before I got them from a forum member. So my assumption was and still is that they were bought for a VX220. It's an assumption and not a fact however. Not going to state the name of the forum member here, as I don't want to draw anybody into this discussion.

[alexb]

... just realized why I thought mine are 46's. Initially I got front brackets for 40's. They turned out to be too narrow, the body of the damper didn't fit. So I got front brackets for 46's. Perhaps a further indication of age, I wanted to change the o-rings, but couldn't use the kit that Eliseshop offers. The o-rings used on the current dampers are of a different size than on mine. So my dampers are from before the o-ring change.

[JohnTurbo]

Simple answer here..from memory people back in the day wanted really low ride heights assuming it optimal. The consideration as 110mm as a guide minimum (front) is more modern. Based on a 95mm front ride theyre not far off the mark, and with just the maim coils the short lengths stopped any risk of dislocation. Unsure if it was a deliberate thought process. My 395mm shocks are great but id be up for a cost effective method of lengthening. Actually if the adjuster was on thr body id be having eyes machined up myself.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

@ Alex - Defo not 46's

 

 

LOL!

 

good question...

 

and in all of this sales pitch, we still have no clear idea what the spec's on the NTR's or 46MM ones people have are, or what is being sold as of now.

 

Jimmy, will you please drop the sales pitch and actually enter the discussion about the spec's of what has and is supplied to customers?

 

 

then perhaps work with Nitron to get some retrofit parts made up to correct the length miss-matches out there, or are you suggesting that they write them off and buy Nitron again that 'might' be the right lengths?

 

 

 

Simon, please lets not start getting nasty.  Your first post in and it's typically aggressive and somewhat insulting.....  I'm open to discuss the issues here but am not going to get dragged into another of your all too prevelant arguements.

 

To address your post point by point.

 

Sales pitch.....  It's not intended to be, I'm just pointing out that Quantum are not the only viable option for a VX which is a suggestion you have been pushing hard so I'm just bringing balance and trying to limit the damage you seem suspiciously keen to inflict on the forum's perception of Nitron 46's.  In fact the 46mm Nitron is cheaper and from what I've seen better than the one way Quantum.

 

Why do you think there is no clear idea of the spec of 46's in the market....?  I know you've seen the photograph a few pages back which clearly disproves the open length issue you have identified with earlier shocks and puts the 46's very much outside of your comments which were clearly based on nothing but assumption.

 

The spec of what has been supplied in the 40mm spec   -  If somebody is concerned that this is effecting their driving even though there has never actually been a complaint or evidence of this causing problems then please get in contact with me and we can liase with Nitron to rectify this as they have done for Sticky (at a cost).  But again Sticky's were not standard  to start with (nor were Alanoo's, Crabash's, Gary2k's, Alexb's etc) and to be fair Sticky was thrilled with his shocks and promoted them to many people over the years..... 

 

 

Personally I fulIy agree that it makes no sense to design the spec outside of the window of articulation but what real life evidence do we have that this is actually causing anybody problems? 

 

NONE. 

 

There are bump rubbers in place to prevent contact on the top bone and there is a fair amount of rebound.  Yes this particular specification is more plentiful on the Quantum so when Nitron released the 46 they improved this spec of their own design also (which makes sense) but the 40mm tube remains very much fit for purpose and a great value performance upgrade.  It just doesn't have the rebound of the higher priced Quantum one way.  Big deal.

 

Talk of writing 40's off is ridiculous and just scaremongering to yet again dissuade people from buying Nitrons and going with shocks from you and your associates. 

 

I'm not slagging Quantums here at all I'm just trying to get people to act on issues they have rather than issues they're being told they have....