533 replies to this topic

[Scuffers]

nice use of caps

yea, sorry, Phone decided it was only going to do caps....

[alexb]

@JJJ: OK I have 40's. Apologies for the confusion. Like I said, I thought they were 46's because of the brackets. And to an extent it's true what you're saying: if you were happy, why all of a sudden get all unhappy with the dampers. As I already stated, I was happy and still am. it's more a matter of optimization: why not optimize if it's relatively easy to do so. And yes, if you're willing to liase with Nitron, I'm interested in a more optimal damper length for my old and trusty 40's

 

 

[Scuffers]

Look,

 

Can we please stop the sales patter and bullshit and get down to the basics here.

 

What are the open/closed lengths of peoples dampers?

 

Old NTR's appear to be ~395/300

New NTR's ~402/307

New 46mm's 422/??? (going on Jimmy's posts)

 

can we please have these numbers confirmed?

 

then at least we know accurately what we are looking at.

 

the simple solution to them being too short is to have some longer end eye's made, these are changeable without having to pull the damper apart (so people could fit them themselves).

 

if we can get some hard numbers sorted, then it will be relatively easy to spec the new ends and get them made up (assuming Nitron want to?).

 

this will then solve the issues rather than keep on bickering about it.

 

Over to you...

 

 

 

[MAXR]

The lack of droop I only noticed as just a few pumps on my jack & the wheels are in the air & looking underneath at the clearances to the wishbones. I am not saying that my wheel spinning is definitely due to the shocks, just that it may be a factor. My car is set to a standard Hoffman ride heights, so same as everyone else who tracks their car regularly. It is also my inside wheel that spins up under corner loading. Having said all that, its quite nice to have a lively rear end, but not when you want to go fast! I don't have a rear arb & my front plans one has ben tried on the mid & top holes, neither make any noticeable difference.

 

As I've said Jimmy, the 46's are in a different league on the limit compared to my last NTR 40's. 

[CocoPops]

Look,   Can we please stop the sales patter and bullshit and get down to the basics here.   What are the open/closed lengths of peoples dampers?   Old NTR's appear to be ~395/300 New NTR's ~402/307 New 46mm's 422/??? (going on Jimmy's posts)   can we please have these numbers confirmed?   then at least we know accurately what we are looking at.   the simple solution to them being too short is to have some longer end eye's made, these are changeable without having to pull the damper apart (so people could fit them themselves).   if we can get some hard numbers sorted, then it will be relatively easy to spec the new ends and get them made up (assuming Nitron want to?).   this will then solve the issues rather than keep on bickering about it.   Over to you...      

good summary. How about inviting nitron to comment? it's their product, they should know right? Put it to bed once and for all, thus avoiding any more animosity and arguments.

[Scuffers]

good summary. How about inviting nitron to comment? it's their product, they should know right? Put it to bed once and for all, thus avoiding any more animosity and arguments.

 

exactly   

 

(was kind of trying to get the people that sell them to take this on as they have the relationship with Nitron)

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

OK a million points to respond to.

 

 

I found it quite tricky to get the power down in your car jimmy mid corner. I put that down to lots of power but could be this issue I suppose? (Still loved it though ) I have a set a 2011 40s and would be interested in a nitron answer. At the time I was keen to figure out how they had fixed the problem with top rear wishbones colliding with the chassis and was told that larger bump stops had fixed it, though I gather some are still doing it. Unfortunately my contact at nitron, Marc tapscott has moved onto pastures new and I no longer have a direct line. It's is true though that when you jack up my near standard ride hight (10mm drop or 120f 130r) car the wheel drops very little.

 

Mate as you were aware my car was 'bleeding' all day and chucking oil over the o/s rear wheel.  Due to this I was doing short sessions and cleaning the oil up after each one.  You took mine out for 11 laps and it was sopping with oil when you got back.  I'm not suprised you had issues with that tyre spinning....

 

 

 

Max,

 

I wasn't aware you were having issues....  You have an identical spec to mine and I very much doubt you're running out of droop.  The open length (422mm) of the 46 is nigh on optimal (435mm touches subframe) so much more droop would mean wishbones hitting subframes.  13mm more droop would only amount to around 8mm actual travel in the wishbone before it hits the subframe and personally I think a few mm's clearance for safety/tolerances is worthwhile....

 

??

 

435-422=13mm at the damper

 

damper to wheel ratio is approx 1.35, so 13mm at the damper = ~17mm at the wheel...

 

(that said, 422 should be enough assuming not at high ride heights.)

 

 

I was talking about the clearance at the wishbone/subframe interferance point not at the wheel.

 

@JJJ: OK I have 40's. Apologies for the confusion. Like I said, I thought they were 46's because of the brackets. And to an extent it's true what you're saying: if you were happy, why all of a sudden get all unhappy with the dampers. As I already stated, I was happy and still am. it's more a matter of optimization: why not optimize if it's relatively easy to do so. And yes, if you're willing to liase with Nitron, I'm interested in a more optimal damper length for my old and trusty 40's

 

 

 

I agree fully.  It would be ideal to optimise this specification as any, I will do my best to come up with a solution

 

Look,

 

Can we please stop the sales patter and bullshit and get down to the basics here.

 

What are the open/closed lengths of peoples dampers?

 

Old NTR's appear to be ~395/300

New NTR's ~402/307

New 46mm's 422/??? (going on Jimmy's posts)

 

can we please have these numbers confirmed?

 

then at least we know accurately what we are looking at.

 

the simple solution to them being too short is to have some longer end eye's made, these are changeable without having to pull the damper apart (so people could fit them themselves).

 

if we can get some hard numbers sorted, then it will be relatively easy to spec the new ends and get them made up (assuming Nitron want to?).

 

this will then solve the issues rather than keep on bickering about it.

 

Over to you...

 

 

 

 

What bullshit patter Simon?  I'm not pushing for sales here mate, nor am I a 'full on' retailer tbh.  I've only sold around 9 or 10 sets in total, ever   If that, the reason I fight their cause is I believe in their products and know first hand how well my shocks perform.

 

You didn't comment on how my 'inferior' Nitrons were a second and a half quicker with the same driver in very similar circumstances around Pembrey this weekend...? 

 

The lack of droop I only noticed as just a few pumps on my jack & the wheels are in the air & looking underneath at the clearances to the wishbones. I am not saying that my wheel spinning is definitely due to the shocks, just that it may be a factor. My car is set to a standard Hoffman ride heights, so same as everyone else who tracks their car regularly. It is also my inside wheel that spins up under corner loading. Having said all that, its quite nice to have a lively rear end, but not when you want to go fast! I don't have a rear arb & my front plans one has ben tried on the mid & top holes, neither make any noticeable difference.

 

As I've said Jimmy, the 46's are in a different league on the limit compared to my last NTR 40's. 

 

That's odd.  You have the same spec shock as me.  Same wheels I think and same arb.....  Do you have an oil breather catch tank a again that could be an issue as you can corner too You tried removing your rear brace?  I can try taking a look at it but with so much distance between it and it not being road legal it's be limited what I could do....

 

 

Look,   Can we please stop the sales patter and bullshit and get down to the basics here.   What are the open/closed lengths of peoples dampers?   Old NTR's appear to be ~395/300 New NTR's ~402/307 New 46mm's 422/??? (going on Jimmy's posts)   can we please have these numbers confirmed?   then at least we know accurately what we are looking at.   the simple solution to them being too short is to have some longer end eye's made, these are changeable without having to pull the damper apart (so people could fit them themselves).   if we can get some hard numbers sorted, then it will be relatively easy to spec the new ends and get them made up (assuming Nitron want to?).   this will then solve the issues rather than keep on bickering about it.   Over to you...      

good summary. How about inviting nitron to comment? it's their product, they should know right? Put it to bed once and for all, thus avoiding any more animosity and arguments.

 

 

That's pretty tough to be honest.  I have been trying to engage them on this for a while but Dora, Anna and Mark T have all left/been booted as well as a number of the marketing types.  I get the odd response currently but most focus is on order fulfilment presently.

 

 

good summary. How about inviting nitron to comment? it's their product, they should know right? Put it to bed once and for all, thus avoiding any more animosity and arguments.

 

exactly   

 

(was kind of trying to get the people that sell them to take this on as they have the relationship with Nitron)

 

 

As said before I'm very small fry with Nitron, I would earn more selling Quantums tbh and they seem to be selling well thanks to the marketing you're doing on here so if I were just pushing for profits in all this then I would just join your bandwagon and convince the forum they're the next best thing, but I'm really not sure that I believe they are.  The 46's are a great shock and imo about the best available.

 

That said I fully respect the products Quantum make too and will happily supply and fit them for any customer.  If someone asked me to supply Gaz I'd tell them to jog on.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

There is no need to bring Gaz into this Jimmy that is unfair. Just out of interest, what shocks are half the top ten runners in Elise Trophy running; Nitron or Quantum?

 

 

[JohnTurbo]

I shouldn't imagine Nitron are too fussed, except perhaps they offer longer rods and an extra bumpstop (from reading this thread)? A price for this would be interesting.

 

Anyone got an exploded diagram? (Actually I'd really like a cad model, but getting that's very very unlikely).

My understanding is the bottom eyes are not removable without depressurising, but Simons comment would suggest different?

[CocoPops]

Everyone, shall we we stop moaning? Ffs, just phone nitron and ask for an official line. Pretty simple in my mind. I see it going one of two ways... 1. "Everything is fine, no issue" 2. "Yes there is an issue and we propose to do....." Jimmy, you moan about jibes from Scuffers, yet you took a swipe at Gaz there uncalled for?

[slindborg]

Hang on, hang on...... You consciously took a car on track that you knew was pissing oil out (potentially over the track)........... Erm erm erm.

[oakmere]

Pritty sure you would get a response and solution from Gaz quickly as well!

[slindborg]

Pritty sure you would get a response and solution from Gaz quickly as well!

They modded my fronts to get more open length even if closed wasn't enough. So they seem proactive if asked rather than being slated immediately,

[Aerodynamic]

There is no need to bring Gaz into this Jimmy that is unfair. Just out of interest, what shocks are half the top ten runners in Elise Trophy running; Nitron or Quantum?

 

 

Whats the answer Mike?

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Fair one, I wasn't intending to swipe at Gaz then honestly it wasn't a dig I contemplated, it just came out

 

remarkably I have had information back from Nitron tonight!

 

NTR40's

 

Open length = 411.5mm

Closed with bump stop compressed = 331.9mm

 

NSS

 

Open length = 415.3mm

Closed with bump stop compressed = 331.9mm

 

 

 

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Ok so doing some quick man maths on these numbers......

 

 

Overall wishbone articulation = 435 open 325 closed.

 

So dead centre of the articualtion stroke = 380mm

 

Most people drop the ride height by about 15mm so damper to wheel ratio of 1.35 means you'll take 11.11mm from the damper.

 

So your damper would be set at 368.9mm to achieve your ride height

 

So if you distribute your 80mm stroke evenly between bump and rebound you're looking to spec shocks at 408.9 open and 328.9 closed which is almost exactly what Nitron are.

 

I think

 

 

 

 

 

[VXT Tim]

Overall wishbone articulation = 435 open 425 closed.    

I know 90% will know but 325 closed for clarity

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

Overall wishbone articulation = 435 open 425 closed.    

I know 90% will know but 325 closed for clarity

 

 

 

Edited cheers Tim, now they WOULD be crap shocks

 

I've no idea if my man maths are right mind, something about the preload is bothering me...

[Scuffers]

typically, you need ~40/60 bump/rebound somewhat surprised at the stroke lengths too? (thinking about it, that sounds like that includes the rubber(s)?)

Edited by Scuffers, 24 July 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

 

There is no need to bring Gaz into this Jimmy that is unfair. Just out of interest, what shocks are half the top ten runners in Elise Trophy running; Nitron or Quantum?

 

 

Whats the answer Mike?

 

Do you really want to know?