533 replies to this topic

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I remember you having the Prima racing r5

Do you... where from?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

 

The weight of the wheel brake and hub has to be enough to force the damper down unless your wishbones are siezed.

 

FWD cars are well known for cocking a rear wheel on corners and yes, this is a lack of droop usually coupled with stiff chassis and high bump travel (Mmmm-reminds me of my R5).

err... no.

 

ignoring the small matter of inertia, gravity is not enough to overcome the rebound damping in any significant way 

 

.

 

So why does a FWD car cock a wheel under heavy cornering?

[Scuffers]

 

 

The weight of the wheel brake and hub has to be enough to force the damper down unless your wishbones are siezed.

 

FWD cars are well known for cocking a rear wheel on corners and yes, this is a lack of droop usually coupled with stiff chassis and high bump travel (Mmmm-reminds me of my R5).

err... no.

 

ignoring the small matter of inertia, gravity is not enough to overcome the rebound damping in any significant way 

 

So why does a FWD car cock a wheel under heavy cornering?

 

Eh?

 

care to explain that one better?

 

FWD will pick up a rear wheel because the rear runs out of droop - what are you getting at?

 

on a FWD you run the rear much stiffer in roll than the front (relatively!) as the last thing you want to do is pick up a front wheel.

 

VX is the opposite, you want to puck up the front before the rear, hence why running a stiff ARB at the front works

[Bargi]

 

 

 

The weight of the wheel brake and hub has to be enough to force the damper down unless your wishbones are siezed.

 

FWD cars are well known for cocking a rear wheel on corners and yes, this is a lack of droop usually coupled with stiff chassis and high bump travel (Mmmm-reminds me of my R5).

err... no.

 

ignoring the small matter of inertia, gravity is not enough to overcome the rebound damping in any significant way 

 

So why does a FWD car cock a wheel under heavy cornering?

 

Eh?

 

care to explain that one better?

 

your just not getting it!

 

 

better?

[Scuffers]

your just not getting it!

 

 

better?

 

in the context of:

 

 

The weight of the wheel brake and hub has to be enough to force the damper down unless your wishbones are siezed.

 

 

 no.

 

Edited by Scuffers, 24 July 2013 - 05:49 PM.

[Exmantaa]

Finally, we are getting somewhere!

 

OK, if the stroke is indeed only 80mm then this is where it starts to get hard.

 

80mm is OK, so long as you have the overall lengths such that at static ride you have the damper some 40% into it's stroke, that would give you some ~65mm droop and ~43mm of bump.

 

.............................

.............................

 

(to be honest, this would be a lot easier if they had ~100mm stroke, as this easily covers 99% of usable heights)

 

 

Just measured my longer rear Hoffmann NTR's, but these have 80mm stroke without bumpstop compression. The bumpstop is 25mm thick (and the nut on the piston rod end is 8mm heigh.)

So with ~40% compression of the bumpstop the available stroke comes to 90mm.

 

Not sure if this allies to other VX-NTR's...

Edited by Exmantaa, 24 July 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[CocoPops]

That golf has a fixed axle and not independent rear suspension.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

This looks promising.

 

Small note to this; do we know/measured the shock length @ "standard ride height"? Or is it an assumption that stock height is halfway in between the wishbone min/max angles?

 

So far as I can see it that would only effect the 60:40 ratio....  As long as you have damping that covers the range of articulation then adjusting your ride height just increases or decreases bump/rebound respectively.....  I mean if you really lower your car (without posh hubs) then you're never going to get 60:40 due to the tight window of articulation but you will still have actual damping throughout the range of the wishbones.....  I think

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

Finally, we are getting somewhere!

 

OK, if the stroke is indeed only 80mm then this is where it starts to get hard.

 

80mm is OK, so long as you have the overall lengths such that at static ride you have the damper some 40% into it's stroke, that would give you some ~65mm droop and ~43mm of bump.

 

.............................

.............................

 

(to be honest, this would be a lot easier if they had ~100mm stroke, as this easily covers 99% of usable heights)

 

 

Just measured my longer rear Hoffmann NTR's, but these have 80mm stroke without bumpstop compression. The bumpstop is 25mm thick (and the nut on the piston rod end is 8mm heigh.)

So with ~40% compression of the bumpstop the available stroke comes to 90mm.

 

Not sure if this allies to other VX-NTR's...

 

 

Hi Frank, did you get an open length measurement here?

[cnrandall]

 

Finally, we are getting somewhere!

 

OK, if the stroke is indeed only 80mm then this is where it starts to get hard.

 

80mm is OK, so long as you have the overall lengths such that at static ride you have the damper some 40% into it's stroke, that would give you some ~65mm droop and ~43mm of bump.

 

.............................

.............................

 

(to be honest, this would be a lot easier if they had ~100mm stroke, as this easily covers 99% of usable heights)

 

 

Just measured my longer rear Hoffmann NTR's, but these have 80mm stroke without bumpstop compression. The bumpstop is 25mm thick (and the nut on the piston rod end is 8mm heigh.)

So with ~40% compression of the bumpstop the available stroke comes to 90mm.

 

Not sure if this allies to other VX-NTR's...

 

The stroke is measured without bump stop.  If in the unlikely event you wanted more bump travel before the stop then simple cut the stop down.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

 

 

 

The weight of the wheel brake and hub has to be enough to force the damper down unless your wishbones are siezed.

 

 

C'mon guys lets stay on topic!

 

Hey wait a minute this whole topic is off topic

[Exmantaa]

 

 

Finally, we are getting somewhere!

 

OK, if the stroke is indeed only 80mm then this is where it starts to get hard.

 

80mm is OK, so long as you have the overall lengths such that at static ride you have the damper some 40% into it's stroke, that would give you some ~65mm droop and ~43mm of bump.

 

.............................

.............................

 

(to be honest, this would be a lot easier if they had ~100mm stroke, as this easily covers 99% of usable heights)

 

 

Just measured my longer rear Hoffmann NTR's, but these have 80mm stroke without bumpstop compression. The bumpstop is 25mm thick (and the nut on the piston rod end is 8mm heigh.)

So with ~40% compression of the bumpstop the available stroke comes to 90mm.

 

Not sure if this allies to other VX-NTR's...

 

 

Hi Frank, did you get an open length measurement here?

 

 

(walks downstairs again....)

 

That will be 427 or 428mm for my Hoffmann rear's...   

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

 

 

Finally, we are getting somewhere!

 

OK, if the stroke is indeed only 80mm then this is where it starts to get hard.

 

80mm is OK, so long as you have the overall lengths such that at static ride you have the damper some 40% into it's stroke, that would give you some ~65mm droop and ~43mm of bump.

 

.............................

.............................

 

(to be honest, this would be a lot easier if they had ~100mm stroke, as this easily covers 99% of usable heights)

 

 

Just measured my longer rear Hoffmann NTR's, but these have 80mm stroke without bumpstop compression. The bumpstop is 25mm thick (and the nut on the piston rod end is 8mm heigh.)

So with ~40% compression of the bumpstop the available stroke comes to 90mm.

 

Not sure if this allies to other VX-NTR's...

 

 

Hi Frank, did you get an open length measurement here?

 

 

(walks downstairs again....)

 

That will be 427 or 428mm for my Hoffmann rear's...   

 

 

Really Frank.....?  Are you measuring from the eye centres...?  428 is about as close to perfect as you will get

[cnrandall]

Sounds about right, I measured up properly on a car before speccing lengths so your open-closed lengths will be good.  Unfortunately a few set of dampers did slip through the net before I realised there was an anomaly with VX dampers.

[Exmantaa]

 

 

 

 

Finally, we are getting somewhere!

 

OK, if the stroke is indeed only 80mm then this is where it starts to get hard.

 

80mm is OK, so long as you have the overall lengths such that at static ride you have the damper some 40% into it's stroke, that would give you some ~65mm droop and ~43mm of bump.

 

.............................

.............................

 

(to be honest, this would be a lot easier if they had ~100mm stroke, as this easily covers 99% of usable heights)

 

 

Just measured my longer rear Hoffmann NTR's, but these have 80mm stroke without bumpstop compression. The bumpstop is 25mm thick (and the nut on the piston rod end is 8mm heigh.)

So with ~40% compression of the bumpstop the available stroke comes to 90mm.

 

Not sure if this allies to other VX-NTR's...

 

 

Hi Frank, did you get an open length measurement here?

 

 

(walks downstairs again....)

 

That will be 427 or 428mm for my Hoffmann rear's...   

 

 

Really Frank.....?  Are you measuring from the eye centres...?  428 is about as close to perfect as you will get

 

 

No, the dampers are lying dismantled on the bench, so I measured from one outside edge of a ball joint to the other joint's edge to get the most accurate number. 

These should be pretty perfect for my "sensible ride height", once I receive some helper springs to get me some droop spring load. (which is the other half of this damper talk...)  

[Mike (Cliffie)]

 

 

The weight of the wheel brake and hub has to be enough to force the damper down unless your wishbones are siezed.   FWD cars are well known for cocking a rear wheel on corners and yes, this is a lack of droop usually coupled with stiff chassis and high bump travel (Mmmm-reminds me of my R5).

err... no.   ignoring the small matter of inertia, gravity is not enough to overcome the rebound damping in any significant way   

So why does a FWD car cock a wheel under heavy cornering?  

Eh?   care to explain that one better?   FWD will pick up a rear wheel because the rear runs out of droop - what are you getting at?   on a FWD you run the rear much stiffer in roll than the front (relatively!) as the last thing you want to do is pick up a front wheel.   VX is the opposite, you want to puck up the front before the rear, hence why running a stiff ARB at the front works

That's what i said in the first place and if gravity is not acting on the wheel assembly making it droop what does? Maybe it is The Force???

[Bargi]

I've almost lost the will to live with this thread and all the number quoting and who has the most droop Have we come to a conclusion or do I need to get a tape measure and pull my 46's off the car?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I've almost lost the will to live with this thread and all the number quoting and who has the most droop Have we come to a conclusion or do I need to get a tape measure and pull my 46's off the car?

The new Gaz gold pros are best

[Scuffers]

I've almost lost the will to live with this thread and all the number quoting and who has the most droop Have we come to a conclusion or do I need to get a tape measure and pull my 46's off the car?

your guess is as good as mine, seems to be they are all different?

[JG]

Here are mine.


Centre of eye to centre of eye

NTR:407mm
Bilstein: 422mm

I set them at 130mm ride height which is about as high as they go.

By the way I've no qualms at all with them, and I love the set up just as it is.