533 replies to this topic

[cnrandall]

 

.....so it would be a needle in a haystack job to weed out aged VX220 customers.  

Not really... You're posting on the main vx220 forum, so it wouldn't have been too hard.

 

 

Go on... How would you deal with this situation, give me some words...

[CocoPops]

 

.....so it would be a needle in a haystack job to weed out aged VX220 customers.  

Not really... You're posting on the main vx220 forum, so it wouldn't have been too hard.  

  Go on... How would you deal with this situation, give me some words...

I, like many others, have been reading this reading this thread, not really understanding the ins and outs, or ups and downs... We've been looking to people like yourself, jimmy, Matt Bentley, Scuffers, etc etc as the knowledgeable people. However, IF these shocks are damaging or causing issues, then a fix should be found and an agreement between affected owners and the suppliers, cost split dependent on cost of fix etc, perhaps a parts cost to customer and labour cost to supplier? I'd guess that SOGA comes into it somewhere if the product has caused damage to other components(wishbones etc). However, until someone (nitron) says there is or is not an issue, then I guess we go round and round.

[JohnTurbo]

Im busy changing a product due to what has become a serious weakness. We are hoping hoping that when the customers are made aware of it they wont demand retrofit. As such we are pretending its an upgrade rather than a fix. Actually its kinda both. There is something like 100k of these things. If we were forced we would sell a retro kit at cost. Meanwhile our competition have a similar plight and charge 70quid per unit for software updates. ...so id expect a call from chris only if he reallised the rods were made of Cemtex in that situation.

[cnrandall]

 

 

 

.....so it would be a needle in a haystack job to weed out aged VX220 customers.  

Not really... You're posting on the main vx220 forum, so it wouldn't have been too hard.  

  Go on... How would you deal with this situation, give me some words...

I, like many others, have been reading this reading this thread, not really understanding the ins and outs, or ups and downs... We've been looking to people like yourself, jimmy, Matt Bentley, Scuffers, etc etc as the knowledgeable people. However, IF these shocks are damaging or causing issues, then a fix should be found and an agreement between affected owners and the suppliers, cost split dependent on cost of fix etc, perhaps a parts cost to customer and labour cost to supplier? I'd guess that SOGA comes into it somewhere if the product has caused damage to other components(wishbones etc). However, until someone (nitron) says there is or is not an issue, then I guess we go round and round.

 

 

There is no damaging or causing issues.  

[cnrandall]

Im busy changing a product due to what has become a serious weakness. We are hoping hoping that when the customers are made aware of it they wont demand retrofit. As such we are pretending its an upgrade rather than a fix. Actually its kinda both. There is something like 100k of these things. If we were forced we would sell a retro kit at cost. Meanwhile our competition have a similar plight and charge 70quid per unit for software updates. ...so id expect a call from chris only if he reallised the rods were made of Cemtex in that situation.

 

Where is the serious weakness?

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Ok guys you've made your point.  I think Chris was big enough to say the spec he supplied wasn't perfect but as he said there's no safety issue and they're still fit for purpose.  In fact there were no complaints from the consumer in question, in fact he was very complimentary about them.

 

That said it was a balls up.  He's admitted that. end of really, lets get on and look at solutions now eh...?

[cnrandall]

Its frustrating for all involved that the VX lengths were compromised and it goes back to the factory dampers.  Nothing in life is perfect though... the old Koni's used to p*ss out oil after £10K miles, TTX ohlins are crap over curbs, Bilsteins corrode the springs platforms, Quantum multi-ways work on fuzzy logic, S2's understeer too much, early S1's oversteer too much etc etc etc

[Sticky]

[quote name="JimmyJamJerusalem" post="1579327" timestamp="

  In fact there were no complaints from the consumer in question, in fact he was very complimentary about them.
 [/quote]

Compared to the Sachs I had previously, you would hope so.

[cnrandall]

uote> Compared to the Sachs I had previously, you would hope so.

 

To be fair, I would expect a lot from Sachs, they are probably the number 1 race damper supplier in the world.

[techieboy]

Quantum multi-ways work on fuzzy logic,

Uh oh, Chris, now you've gone and done it. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

In fact there were no complaints from the consumer in question, in fact he was very complimentary about them.

Compared to the Sachs I had previously, you would hope so.

 

 

 

C'mon Nick, you know full well you've never had a problem with them.  I'm not saying they're right, there's clearly a design flaw but the real life consequences of it are minimal.

[cnrandall]

 

Quantum multi-ways work on fuzzy logic,

Uh oh, Chris, now you've gone and done it. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

 

 

Nothing against quantum, been using them for longer than anyone else on here.  All the different damper makes have their pro and cons.

[VXT Tim]

Quantum multi-ways work on fuzzy logic,

Uh oh, Chris, now you've gone and done it. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

33 pages unless some bright spark locks it.

[Sticky]

 

In fact there were no complaints from the consumer in question, in fact he was very complimentary about them.

Compared to the Sachs I had previously, you would hope so.  

    C'mon Nick, you know full well you've never had a problem with them.  I'm not saying they're right, there's clearly a design flaw but the real life consequences of it are minimal.

We'll see when I get her back although considering how this thread has gone I will be very very careful with my words.

[Scuffers]

 

 

 

 

.....so it would be a needle in a haystack job to weed out aged VX220 customers.  

Not really... You're posting on the main vx220 forum, so it wouldn't have been too hard.
 

 
Go on... How would you deal with this situation, give me some words...

I, like many others, have been reading this reading this thread, not really understanding the ins and outs, or ups and downs...

We've been looking to people like yourself, jimmy, Matt Bentley, Scuffers, etc etc as the knowledgeable people.

However, IF these shocks are damaging or causing issues, then a fix should be found and an agreement between affected owners and the suppliers, cost split dependent on cost of fix etc, perhaps a parts cost to customer and labour cost to supplier?
I'd guess that SOGA comes into it somewhere if the product has caused damage to other components(wishbones etc).

However, until someone (nitron) says there is or is not an issue, then I guess we go round and round.

 

 

There is no damaging or causing issues.  

 

 

Just my two cents

 

Here's an old picture of my (first version) Hofmann's specs VX220 dampers 

 

 

You could very easily see the length and droop issue here.

 

Add to that the fact that my first Nitrons did this :

 

way back in 2006, when I was "the first to report anything like that" according to Guy at Nitron... which said exactly the same 2 or 3 years after that when a few cases showed here...

 

 

[2-20]

 

 

I've almost lost the will to live with this thread and all the number quoting and who has the most droop Have we come to a conclusion or do I need to get a tape measure and pull my 46's off the car?

your guess is as good as mine, seems to be they are all different?

 

 

See THIS is the problem in the thread.  At the nearest opportunity Simon casts the air of doubt for no good reason.  You can see we're addressing the possibility of short dampers so quit these little jibes.

 

In reality, within this thread there have been a number of people with short open lengths.  Namely

 

Sticky

Crabash

Alanoo

LeeVX2.2

Gary2kk

 

Not one of those are standard Nitron spec.  They are all custom spec by various tuners and none are correct.

 

 

I'm on standard Nitrons specs (40 dia 2 ways) with short open lengths  

[cnrandall]

Alanoo - were your problems addressed or do you still have an issue?

 

Everybody else on older spec Nitrons - If you have an issue affecting your car can you please contact your supplying dealer or Nitron direct so the issue can be addressed.  If you are on a short damper and don't have twin bump stops the car needs looking at promptly, if you are on a short damper and twin bump stops there is no urgency but if you want to upgrade for more length then I'm sure something favourable can be done. 

[Crabash]

With ref to mine having short open length.... Not from what has been said, they were about perfect. Frank has em now anyway, the only prob with mine was they needed rear helpers at least as I could not go below 135mm without the spring leaving the seat on droop.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

There's only half a story there with Alanoo's post and someone has been editing his posts to hide the fact.....

 

Suffers has quoted Alanoo but this part of Alanoos original post has been removed

 

 

 

 

 

 

You could very easily see the length and droop issue here.

 

 

Plus the fact my Nitron on the Atom are pure crap (so hard I couldn't even put one click from full soft without having the car rebounding like hell on track)

 

Must say I am really unimpressed apart by the build quality and looks...

 

 

 

My original response

 

 

 

From what you've said above your problem is how you've set them up.  You shouldn't set Nitrons from fully soft!  It's clear in the users manual about this as past 40 odd clicks from fully hard results can be inconsistent as it's relatively unregulated.  Also your problem is a bouncy 'fast rebound' issue then you need to tighten the bump/rebound adjuster not soften them.  At fully soft of course your suspension is bouncy, thats what you've set them to be.  Try tightening them right up Let me know if I can be of help mate

 

 

People removing comments like that are sneaky as it's only half a story!!!  Articulation limit issue is clearly a factor but if everything is backed off so your shock is offering no real metering then of course limits will be reached. 

[alexb]

 

 

 

 

The weight of the wheel brake and hub has to be enough to force the damper down unless your wishbones are siezed.   FWD cars are well known for cocking a rear wheel on corners and yes, this is a lack of droop usually coupled with stiff chassis and high bump travel (Mmmm-reminds me of my R5).

err... no.   ignoring the small matter of inertia, gravity is not enough to overcome the rebound damping in any significant way   

So why does a FWD car cock a wheel under heavy cornering?  

Eh?   care to explain that one better?   FWD will pick up a rear wheel because the rear runs out of droop - what are you getting at?   on a FWD you run the rear much stiffer in roll than the front (relatively!) as the last thing you want to do is pick up a front wheel.   VX is the opposite, you want to puck up the front before the rear, hence why running a stiff ARB at the front works

That's what i said in the first place and if gravity is not acting on the wheel assembly making it droop what does? Maybe it is The Force???

 

 

Nah, not The Force, it's curvature of space

Gravity will pull the unsprung mass down, but I think what Scuffers is saying is that the force on the damper due to unsprung mass is not enough to to pull the whole lot down fast enough, overcoming the resistance of the rebound setting of the damper. It'll get there eventually, but the car can't wait for that and moves on.

 

TBH, I didn't even think about that, but that's the whole idea of having a damper in the first place, controlling the movements of the spring.

 

TBdoubleH, I still don't understand what's happening, but will refrain from asking, as I don't want to increase topic drift.