533 replies to this topic

[Scuffers]

 

Nothing to add here and my longer dampers indeed fouled the subframe with their 2.25 helper springs...   

 

Only wished that Nitron or others had looked into this properly some years ago when they designed this...

 

your not alone... 

 

What I find most annoying about all this is that it's been well known about for years, yet people chose to ignore it

 

If your having issues with helpers, two suggestions:

 

1) put the helpers on the eye end of the damper (they are fatter than the main springs as they are flat section)

2) if this does not help enough, use shorter main springs (being mindful of their more limited travel), typically you can get away with 6" springs at reasonable rates if you have helpers...

Edited by Scuffers, 29 July 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Zoobeef]

Do nitrons for the Lotus's have similar problems?

[siztenboots]

also turn the springs so that you gain the most clearance at the flattened section at the end

[Scuffers]

Do nitrons for the Lotus's have similar problems?

Toyota S2's are exactly the same in this respect... 

[P11 COV]

Well as may join in the fun. Both Steve Guglielmi and Matt Bentley have commented on my cars lack of 'droop'. I would guess my Nitrons were installed back in 2005/6 isn and probably by TMS but I can't be sure. Matt didn't flag this up as a major concern when he was setting my car up so I assumed they weren't as bad as some. I can't say I've particularly noticed it as an issue on track.

 

So here are my pics.

 

Bout 45mm when on the floor...

 

 

58 when jacked up so about 18mm of droop. What d'you reckon I have then?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Well as may join in the fun. Both Steve Guglielmi and Matt Bentley have commented on my cars lack of 'droop'. I would guess my Nitrons were installed back in 2005/6 isn and probably by TMS but I can't be sure. Matt didn't flag this up as a major concern when he was setting my car up so I assumed they weren't as bad as some. I can't say I've particularly noticed it as an issue on track.

 

So here are my pics.

 

Bout 45mm when on the floor...

 

 

58 when jacked up so about 18mm of droop. What d'you reckon I have then?

A shredded wheel arch liner...

[Winstar]

A shredded wheel arch liner...

That's from an unsecured TMS CC unit

[Scuffers]

 

58 when jacked up so about 18mm of droop. What d'you reckon I have then?

yours are the same as everybody elses, they are 395mm open.

 

Pretty sure I remember Matt mentioning this too you? (although I could have you mixed up with somebody else?)

 

on a more general point, I would suggest the following.

 

1) *ALL* VX nitrons were 395mm, I do not believe that any re-seller had them re-spec'ed from this, then in ~2010(??) they changed to 402?

2) the ones I have looked at have ~100mm of stroke (assuming the bump rubber is not there)

 

thus with a change of eyelet to make the open length ~325mm, this would mean you have a damper that now can be safely used over the whole range of usable ride-heights for the VX.

 

(I believe Matt is working with Nitron to have the parts made up to achieve this).

 

Shame it takes somebody that's never sold them to solve the problem after all these years....

[JohnTurbo]

Just a note because we've discussed the rears at length - I hope everyone is aware the front situation is very much the same, with the exception of the potential to damage wishbones.

 

I'm hoping the results of this will be very positive!

[Scuffers]

good point, not looked... what spec are they?

[P11 COV]

 

A shredded wheel arch liner...

 

 

I know - been like that for a few years - doesn't seem to affect performance though :-)

 

 

[JohnTurbo]

Well I have barely a 100mm ride height with loads of preload, and then naff all droop at the front.

Pretty sure someone quoted the free length (-305mm?)

 

 

 

 

 

[P11 COV]

 

 

58 when jacked up so about 18mm of droop. What d'you reckon I have then?

yours are the same as everybody elses, they are 395mm open.

 

Pretty sure I remember Matt mentioning this too you? (although I could have you mixed up with somebody else?)

 

 

 

We talked about the failings of my shocks in general terms. I'd already mentioned that I'd been told by Steve Guglielmi many years ago that they lacked droop. This was before this whole topic had really been raised. I don't remember any specifics...although it could have been mentioned. I don't take in the technical stuff.

[Graeme Lambert]

Page 22, woah.

There's no way I read through all of this thread, again, but I think i understand the basics.

 

However, apart from the wishbone 'dinking' what other charcteristics should/would it notice while driving my VX on the road/track with these shocks please?

 

/Yours, a newly fitted Nitron (originally from TMS) owner. Sigh...

 

G

[Scuffers]

depends on setup, but typically on track all too easy to get into wheelspin (picking up the inside rear on hard/sharp corner exit's) and on the road, choppy ride when the dampers top out on undulations.

[JohnTurbo]

^ And today I couldn't get an mot...it wouldn't go on the ramp.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

depends on setup, but typically on track all too easy to get into wheelspin (picking up the inside rear on hard/sharp corner exit's) and on the road, choppy ride when the dampers top out on undulations.

I don't think that's accurate tbh. Not wanting to anger Simon but i think he's pinning that common symptom on the shocks unfairly. I've physically demonstrated to a number of people 46's have an absolute ton of droop as has george in this thread and we even have tenders yet in some corners I experience the same. In my opinion this is due to torque, my diff and the dynamics of the car during cornering. The path of least traction becomes that wheel and even with sufficient droop it spins. I'll get shouted at for this but I'd say the LSD is the answer. That's what you run on Cliffie's car too..... I think someone's trying to counteract the 'why has nobody ever complained about this' point of view by assigning the issue to a seperate (and fairly common) symptom. Simon I'm sorry but i often feel you're politically motivated by your comments I can't help feel there isn't another agenda behind your investigations.... You criticise Nitron suppliers but haven't EliseParts been supplying these for some time? Guarantee you won't be pointing the finger anywhere near them. I've done a fair amount of work now with Nitron addressing the current spec. They're happy the open length is good but to abate public concerns they are adjusting a new spec that will have a longer open length which will offer more droop from typical ride heights than Lotus originally specced the VX with. Also the absolute closed length will be set at 325 but a bump rubber will remain in place. With regards to what will become of allthe 395's Ive been speaking with Guy about solutions and Matt Bentley is also looking at options so we'll see what comes of that for now.

[Scuffers]

FFS Jimmy, the subject is the SHORT NTR's

 

NOT fcuking 46MM ONES!

 

 

Look, you clearly have no experience of any of this stuff, you have been selling them for some time, yet clearly know NOTHING about it other than they are great.

 

I do wish you would give it a rest and let others actually solve the problems that you and others have just ignored (whilst making a few quid out of them).

 

 

 

[ArticMonkey]

Droopinghell! Get a room you two.

[PaulCP]

FFS Jimmy, the subject is the SHORT NTR's   NOT fcuking 46MM ONES!     Look, you clearly have no experience of any of this stuff, you have been selling them for some time, yet clearly know NOTHING about it other than they are great.   I do wish you would give it a rest and let others actually solve the problems that you and others have just ignored (whilst making a few quid out of them).    

Scuffs I think you have misread Jimmy's post in your haste to blast him I believe Jimmy was referring to the fact that it is not just the shocks that cause wheel spin on the inner wheel by illustrating that wheel spin is still an issue on cars fitted with 46s, ones which you agree do not present any problems. You also need to accept the fact that not everyone is interested in racing their cars and that over the years, for the vast majority of Nitron specced NTR 40 cars, their owners have been happy with the results (me included) You don't have to agree with it, just accept it is the case!

Edited by PaulCP, 30 July 2013 - 06:09 PM.