533 replies to this topic

[rob999]

So Nick's are essentially S1 shocks....?

[Exmantaa]

 

see what your saying, but why would you need to have different shock lengths if they were right in the first place?

 

 

To get the right proportion of bump vs rebound for the ride height you have chosen whatever wheel you have and to take advantage of the full travel available.

 

 

This would be good to tailor your shocks (ride height vs. bump/droop) if the shock travel was less than the total available wishbone angle.

If you match this max window angle with the maximum shock travel (as scuffers says), you end up with only one right open/closed length.

 

(Some available longer endconnections could help the people out with too short shocks, but they probably also need to add helper springs etc. in the equation... Is see a How-To topic blooming. )     

Edited by Exmantaa, 28 June 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Sticky]

So Nick's are essentially S1 shocks....?

I think so.

[2-20]

 

 

see what your saying, but why would you need to have different shock lengths if they were right in the first place?

 

 

To get the right proportion of bump vs rebound for the ride height you have chosen whatever wheel you have and to take advantage of the full travel available.

 

not sure I understand what your saying?

 

 

I want to say that the middle point of your shock travel (for a 50/50 ratio bump/rebond) should correspond to your desired ride height.

( and still be within the window to avoid wishbone contact)  

[Scuffers]

I want to say that the middle point of your shock travel (for a 50/50 ratio bump/rebond) should correspond to your desired ride height. ( and still be within the window to avoid wishbone contact)  

ah, ok.... although ideally, you need more rebound travel than bump...

[2-20]

 

 

see what your saying, but why would you need to have different shock lengths if they were right in the first place?  

  To get the right proportion of bump vs rebound for the ride height you have chosen whatever wheel you have and to take advantage of the full travel available.

Will make no difference because the window is always constant (so I understand from reading this topic) so unless you change wishbones uprights or rear subframe. It won't matter what wheels your using or ride hight. From the other topic the bump/rebound is mainly down to vaulving and spring rate. The travel of the shock is limited to the space available. I hope I got that right haha If your car is so low that you have run out shock travel I should imagine this is a very bad thing???

 

 

Wheels sizes enter into the equation. If you change your tyres from 175/55/17 to 195/50/16 your ride height will change. If you keep the same static ride height, it means that the location of the shock piston in its stroke has been changed. Therefore the amount of bump and rebond travels have been changed

[2-20]

 

I want to say that the middle point of your shock travel (for a 50/50 ratio bump/rebond) should correspond to your desired ride height. ( and still be within the window to avoid wishbone contact)  

ah, ok.... although ideally, you need more rebound travel than bump...

 

 

I agree, it was just easier to explain like this...

[GeorgeBC]

Wowsers my head hurts. Im happy with my 46's and they are just vx220 spec so the same length and valved as nitron saw fit. Never heard a clonking and theres no damage/dinks in my wishbones. Ran the dampener super soft for the highland hoon on roads that should be used to test cars to destruction and apart from my tyre eating my arch liner i have no probs.

 

Theres about 8mm from the bottom of the wishbone to the top of the subframe. Not even sure if im looking at the right area anymore. Photo came out pretty bad but i was trying to use my finger to show the gap but it clearly didn't work.

 

 

So are they all at fault or just certain specs? I skim read bits as it started to bore me a bit so apologies if this has been covered.

[Scuffers]

kind of meaningless without knowing the open/closed measurements... that said, open length looks reasonable (ideally, that gap should be almost nothing)

[Scuffers]

Well, just to update this one...

 

Sticky's dampers are back, and yes they are longer - by some ~10mm

 

 

and as you can see, still with two bump rubbers fitted to attempt to limit the stroke - ie, they are still way too short.

 

Just to illustrate the difference, there's the comparison with an off the shelf EP spec Quantum

 

 

(note, this is not Sticky's)

[Sticky]

Thanks for tormenting me with pictures Simon

[leevx2.2]

I love my quantum's ;-)

[Bumblebee]

Which ones have you gone for?

[leevx2.2]

Which ones have you gone for?

1 ways

[rob999]

I love my quantum's ;-)

Do you love Simon too?

[P.A.J.]

My 46 Nitron Track Day 1-Way with spring rates 400 & 525 Ibs/"

 

 

 

[Sticky]

My 46 Nitron Track Day 1-Way with spring rates 400 & 525
 

You want an uprated ARB to go with those

http://www.vx220.org...-anti-roll-bar/

[alanoo]

Just my two cents

 

Here's an old picture of my (first version) Hofmann's specs VX220 dampers 

 

 

You could very easily see the length and droop issue here.

 

Add to that the fact that my first Nitrons did this :

 

way back in 2006, when I was "the first to report anything like that" according to Guy at Nitron... which said exactly the same 2 or 3 years after that when a few cases showed here...

 

Plus the fact my Nitron on the Atom are pure crap (so hard I couldn't even put one click from full soft without having the car rebounding like hell on track)

 

Must say I am really unimpressed apart by the build quality and looks...

 

 

[chris_uk]

Actually, this has been kind of covered before in this thread:
 
(worth saying at this point it's not just Nitron that seem to have this problem).
 
this is the equivalent on a VX with 'old' NTR's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TK4jj3TO6Y

 

http://vimeo.com/38482904

 

 

this is my gaz monos droop.. 

 

 

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Just my two cents

 

Here's an old picture of my (first version) Hofmann's specs VX220 dampers 

 

 

You could very easily see the length and droop issue here.

 

Add to that the fact that my first Nitrons did this :

 

way back in 2006, when I was "the first to report anything like that" according to Guy at Nitron... which said exactly the same 2 or 3 years after that when a few cases showed here...

 

Plus the fact my Nitron on the Atom are pure crap (so hard I couldn't even put one click from full soft without having the car rebounding like hell on track)

 

Must say I am really unimpressed apart by the build quality and looks...

 

 

 

Hi Alanoo

 

Yeah can defo see in your first pic that the tube length has been incorrectly specced there.  The Tender is doing nothing at all.  You have the same issue as Sticky which was the wrong specification was ordered (not for a VX).

 

As for the issues you were experiencing on your other Nitron shocks....  From what you've said above your problem is how you've set them up.  You shouldn't set Nitrons from fully soft!  It's clear in the users manual about this as past 40 odd clicks from fully hard results can be inconsistent as it's relatively unregulated.  Also your problem is a bouncy 'fast rebound' issue then you need to tighten the bump/rebound adjuster not soften them.  At fully soft of course your suspension is bouncy, thats what you've set them to be.  Try tightening them right up Let me know if I can be of help mate

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To go more to the actual point of this thread which was meant to be NTR 40's vs NTR46's then it's clear that the earlier 40's do not necassarily have the optimum bump/rebound window as it's not within the articulation of the wishbones. 

 

However

 

This issue has been rectified some time ago with the 46's design and they are a worthy development both for this reason and that the larger tube diameter and oil transfer offers much more slow bump control which equates to real confidence inspiring composure during long fast corners!

 

In my opinion nothing handled like my car this weekend at the National (with the possible exception of 5oclocks race car which was also on 46's).

 

To illustrate we took some data....

 

I buckled my o/s front and rear rims at Snetterton a few years ago hitting a kerb in the Time Attack final and I've not really driven the car since then until this weekend.  The car's had no geo or setup or anything since.  Just had the rims repaired and balanced.

 

We set up two Vbox's in two VX's at the National and SteveA took them both out for hot laps.  Steve's lap times were very consistent in both cars.  My car was consistently 1.5 seconds a lap quicker than the second car that had just come back from a full track setup and Quantum one ways fitted.  Power to weight ratio of the cars was about the same (mine being less powerful), both Supercharged (mine M62, the other Harrop), same wheels, same tyres, same brakes.

 

Worth saying also that both were fantastic and I'm not fighting or provoking anyone saying A is better than B more defending that there's nothing wrong with Nitrons which people seem to think.  Regardless of what people tell you is a problem the proof of the pudding is in the eating and I defy anybody to tell me my shocks are no good.

 

I'm happy to talk about specs and performance but I'm not getting back into a row like the other week, that did nobody any favours.