174 replies to this topic

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

We're still not there yet guys so stick with it a little longer 

 

In Nitrons defense (as some of you know) they've lost alot of people recently.  Mark Tapscott, Dora, Anna and a few more have all left and it's right in their busy period.  I think they needed some people this side to help as they just don't have the manpower to deal with everything.  Normally Mark would have been all over this and I'm sure in good time when he is replaced the next guy would be in here helping. 

 

Similar issues with parts supply and in Paul's case recently extended lead times on rebuilds.  It will get better though

 

[2-20]

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]OK so we've been working with Nitron on optimising the current NTR spec shock and we're happy now that the standard spec VX220 NTR 40's has been improved.  They will have a more robust solution to the closed length issue which has now been limited to an absolute closed length of 325mm which will ensure no contact wth subframe at maximum bump.  A bump rubber will remain in place.[/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"] [/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]As for the open length this too will be increased slightly to around 417mm which (from typical ride heights) will offer more droop than Lotus designed the standard shocks with.  Exact figures not to hand but looking at around 70-75mm which is plenty (even for a road car).[/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"] [/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]All damping is within the articulation of the shocks.  Only concern currently is springs as this may render the requirement for a helper spring to be used which will inflate the cost of this kit....[/font]

 

 

 

With regards to the old spec 395's etc.....  I would like to know your thoughts on these suggested solutions....

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]You have a few options available so contact me if you want to go ahead with any of the options below.....[/font]

 

 

1,  We can return your shocks to Nitron who will modify your shocks to put them in line with current spec shocks.  This will move the stroke window to within the wishbone articualtion window and improve your droop significantly.  This will cost £50 +vat

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]2.  We can book your shocks in to Nitron for a full refurb (£65 per corner + vat) during which the shocks length will be modified free of charge.  They will be updated with the current 2013 spec internals and will come back in 'as new' condition.[/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]3.  (Just for PCooper) If you have had your shocks refurbed within the last 12 months then return your shocks to Nitron and they will also be updated free of charge.[/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"] [/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]Nitron will not pay for carriage of shocks.[/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"] [/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]I think that's pretty fair to be honest so please if you'd like to pursue any of the options above drop me a pm [/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"] [/font]

 

 

Are these options valid for all 4 shocks or only the rears ones ??

 

Thank you

[techieboy]

Are these options valid for all 4 shocks or only the rears ones ??

 

Would be interested to know that as well. No idea if anything has changed over the years but 2006 spec on one end and 2013 spec on the other doesn't sound like good recipe.

 

Anyway, I'm in for Option 2. Happy to get helpers (though I'm still not sure why they're needed) if they add anything to the effectiveness, or longer springs if they're needed to make things work properly.

 

Thanks for progressing the solution to the problem (even if I was unaware of an issue until this started and had been perfectly happy).

[smiley]

I like option 2 also, but not before end of september.

(mine did about 50k miles, with about 5k on track. Strong stuff.)

 

Some sort of reference to include when we communicate with nitron would be nice.

 

Thanks for sorting this Jummy.   

 

Edited by smiley, 31 July 2013 - 09:25 PM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I think if people are looking at refurbs you'd do well to do it off season rather than right away!  Super busy right now the lead times will take a while.

 

The spec of the internals will be updated to 2013/14 spec during refurb and the longer eyelet fitted to the rears.  If you just wanted the rears done then you could to save money but I agree it may be odd having different valving front to rear....  £65 per shock plus vat is a good price for a full rebuild; they do a great job on them too, speak to PaulCP about his refurb he almost thought they'd sent him new shocks by mistake 

[Boombang]

Was there any analysis done on the lengths of the front shocks?

[siztenboots]

 

Are these options valid for all 4 shocks or only the rears ones ??

 

Would be interested to know that as well. No idea if anything has changed over the years but 2006 spec on one end and 2013 spec on the other doesn't sound like good recipe.

 

Anyway, I'm in for Option 2. Happy to get helpers (though I'm still not sure why they're needed) if they add anything to the effectiveness, or longer springs if they're needed to make things work properly.

 

Thanks for progressing the solution to the problem (even if I was unaware of an issue until this started and had been perfectly happy).

 

 

helpers are needed because generally springs come in 1" sizes , sometimes that isn't ideal

[techieboy]

 

helpers are needed because generally springs come in 1" sizes , sometimes that isn't ideal

 

It's just that every helper I've ever seen fitted on our cars seems to be coil bound and looks like the equivalent of an extra inch or two on the main spring length.

[siztenboots]

yes, its giving you 2" of adjustment , really its a discussion about preload

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

 

helpers are needed because generally springs come in 1" sizes , sometimes that isn't ideal

 

It's just that every helper I've ever seen fitted on our cars seems to be coil bound and looks like the equivalent of an extra inch or two on the main spring length.

 

 

Not yet 100% if they'll be needed but with the extra open length they will defo be a beneficial upgrade and will defo fit.

 

Here is one of my old NTR40's (Hofmann spec) and a replacement Race46mm shock both fitted with helpers, neither are coil bound although the 40 (blue tender) doesn't have a massive amount of travel available.  The NTR40 has a shorter open length to what we are proposing so will be improved from the image below

 

[siztenboots]

so , on the left 6" 650lbs spring with 2" 150lbs tender, right 7" main spring 600lbs plus 2" 300lbs tender (guessing, looks like the Hofmanns spec) , all are 2 1/4" internal diam. both preloaded , so the length won't change until a force greater than the preload is applied

[PaulCP]

To illustrate Jimmy's point on the "as new" look of the refurbed product here are my fronts. They looked pretty grotty when we took them off

[JohnTurbo]

Im happy to pay...and want a refurb too, but the length of the fronts is actually more of an issue to me. Shocks coming off tonight...so I can get the car onto the ramps for mot!

[TazN]

Jimmy will they be offering these changes (even if the price changes) for people to ask for when they next need a refurb?

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Im happy to pay...and want a refurb too, but the length of the fronts is actually more of an issue to me. Shocks coming off tonight...so I can get the car onto the ramps for mot!

 

 

John I'm not sure what Nitron's attitude to your shocks will be as they were never intended for a VX so they may be reluctant to pay for modifying them.  That said a refurb and modification is a requirement and with the bits floating around then I'm sure they will do them.  What's the problem with the fronts?

 

Jimmy will they be offering these changes (even if the price changes) for people to ask for when they next need a refurb?

 

Yeah sure.  Just give me a shout and I'll make sure they go through with clear instructions to modify as well as refurbish

[JohnTurbo]

If I understand correctly the Elise has the exact same issues. Actually ive no idea what my shocks were on when I think about it, as they were on ebay as elise S2/vx220...from uklc! Nonetheless they will know from the numbers. If it cost more it cost more.

[TazN]

Sorry Jimmy perhaps should't worded a bit better.

 

Say in 2 years will they be willing to make changes? I have 12/13 spec only fitted 2 months ago, I've only drove them 1k miles! so they are some way from needing to go back for a refurb.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

If you're on this spec then I don't think you are effected.  Have you checked your open length?

[Exmantaa]

@ Paul, did you buy new springs too as an extra, or is the blue "rfurbisched to 2013 spec"??

 

@ John T; what's wrong with your fronts? Front has a bracket, so you're very flexible there to get things right.

(I just lowered my front bracket 6mm to get my "325 NTR's" height spot on with a 425lb spring...)

[alexb]

Big thanks to JJJ for time and effort spent in trying to find a solution. I will probably go for the refurb, but does that 65 GBP apply to 3-ways too? And same as Smiley, will be end of September or later. Luckily I still have my old billies

 

About the helpers, it's a good thing that they are coil bound at static ride height. That means they get effective in droop only and not in bump. As they get coil bound, you will see the spring rate going up a lot at the moment the helper gets bound. For example 300 lbs/inch helper and 600 main is 200 combined until the helper gets bound and than it's 600. I have no experience with it, but to me it looks like if that happens in bump, you must feel the transition. In droop, you won't, because is more gradual.