174 replies to this topic

[JohnTurbo]

Any news on this?

 

I've offered my car as a backup for TA, and I will need to refit my Nitrons for that if it happens.

[alanoo]

I got my hofmann spec Nitrons fitted with longer bodies for this issue some time ago, I will measure them tomorrow for all of you, may be interesting

[Boombang]

I found this on another forum, thought it might be of interest to some on here.  Apparently these were a one off to fit the rear of a Peugeot 106.

 

Not sure if it resembles the solution being investigated, and of course it doesn't increase droop without sacrificing bump.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I've been mailing Nitron about this but have not been getting any response on the issue....  They have a customer set in for a refurb currently!

[JohnTurbo]

Any more details Boombang? Ive been imagining removeing tbe eyelet would release the pressure.

[Boombang]

Only know what is says on the for sale thread - very little!

 

http://www.106rallye...ighlight=nitron

 

 

 

[Scuffers]

Any more details Boombang? Ive been imagining removeing tbe eyelet would release the pressure.

removing the eyelet has no impact on the gas charge.

 

AFAIK, Matt has been talking to Guy, and had worked out what eyelets are required, just awaiting Guy to confirm making them.

 

(seems a pain it's taking forever)

[siztenboots]

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

[Sticky]

Mine is done with new eyelets at both ends. Matt is talking to Guy about the optimal solution as Scuffers says.

[CocoPops]

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

So, it comes back to.... Where is the official Nitron statement about what IS and ISN'T correct and whether a set bought today would be "correct"

[alanoo]

I got my hofmann spec Nitrons fitted with longer bodies for this issue some time ago, I will measure them tomorrow for all of you, may be interesting

 

 

Ok, so these are around 435/440mm between "eyes"

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Some news from Nitron which will follow, but first a few points....

 

 

 

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

 

If a design doesn't use every mm of the articualtion of the wishbone you could call this a design flaw or say it's not 'optimal' but the 46's have been proven to have more than enough rebound and have proven to perform exceptionally well on track (better than equivilant Blacks in our test).  If; of the plethora of great design characteristics people want to focus on one that has never generated a single customer complaint (in over a decade of Nitron production) then yeah you can claim they are not 'optimal' but no other shock manufacturor makes shocks that are 'optimal' under this definition.  Not even Quantum's. 

 

 

 

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

So, it comes back to....
Where is the official Nitron statement about what IS and ISN'T correct and whether a set bought today would be "correct"

 

 

 

Nitron are not going to be making official statements Lee, but we've been talking to them to rectify the issues with old spec shocks (circa 2009) and this issue has long since been put to bed so any new purchases will have more than sufficient droop (as they have done for some time). 

 

Whether people accept that 410mm or 420mm or 430mm open length is "correct" is up for debate but no company use 'optimal' lengths in all of their shock production as it's really not that important. 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Right then,

 

Nitron have revised the initial suggestion now they have firm deisgns made and are happy to reduct the cost of replacing the eyes from £50 to £10.  The longer shocks may need helper springs being fitted.  Some poeple wont bother but for those who would like them feel free to give me a shout and I will get some ordered up for you

 

So the options going forward

 

1,  We can return your shocks to Nitron who will modify your shocks to put them in line with current spec shocks.  This will move the stroke window to within the wishbone articualtion window and improve your droop significantly.  This will cost £10 +vat

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]2.  We can book your shocks in to Nitron for a full refurb (£65 per corner + vat) during which the shocks length will be modified free of charge.  They will be updated with the current 2013 spec internals and will come back in 'as new' condition.[/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]3.  If you have had your shocks refurbed within the last 12 months then return your shocks to Nitron and they will also be updated free of charge.[/font]

 

[font="Arial, 'sans-serif';color:#222222;font-size:10.5pt;"]Nitron will not pay for carriage of shocks.[/font]

 

I think this is super fair!

 

The new eyes have been ordered and are currently being adonised so soon after we can start sending sets in for conversion. 

 

I think it will work better if we consider the fact that we will swamp Nitron's build shop if you all send your shocks in at once so I think we should coordinate our rebuilds by working through the list we have made....

 

ie

 

FLD and Alexb send theirs in (FLD already has) and when they get theirs back the next two send theirs in and so forth....  I think that would be fair from us as they are busy already. 

 

What you guys think?

[siztenboots]

Some news from Nitron which will follow, but first a few points....

 

 

 

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

 

If a design doesn't use every mm of the articualtion of the wishbone you could call this a design flaw or say it's not 'optimal' but the 46's have been proven to have more than enough rebound and have proven to perform exceptionally well on track (better than equivilant Blacks in our test).  If; of the plethora of great design characteristics people want to focus on one that has never generated a single customer complaint (in over a decade of Nitron production) then yeah you can claim they are not 'optimal' but no other shock manufacturor makes shocks that are 'optimal' under this definition.  Not even Quantum's. 

 

 

By the strict definition , I agree with you, but not entirely.

 

I am as much a Nitron fanboy as anyone, but please lay off a bit with the rhetoric. Attacking me won't gain anything.  

I know Guy is a busy man, we VX and S2 owners must represent a small % of his customer base , car and bikes. But if the data is not public, then it will be another trip to Witney to get a definitive answer.

 

I can't tell which words are yours, or paraphrased from Nitron.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

Some news from Nitron which will follow, but first a few points....

 

 

 

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

 

If a design doesn't use every mm of the articualtion of the wishbone you could call this a design flaw or say it's not 'optimal' but the 46's have been proven to have more than enough rebound and have proven to perform exceptionally well on track (better than equivilant Blacks in our test).  If; of the plethora of great design characteristics people want to focus on one that has never generated a single customer complaint (in over a decade of Nitron production) then yeah you can claim they are not 'optimal' but no other shock manufacturor makes shocks that are 'optimal' under this definition.  Not even Quantum's. 

 

 

By the strict definition , I agree with you, but not entirely.

 

I am as much a Nitron fanboy as anyone, but please lay off a bit with the rhetoric. Attacking me won't gain anything.  

I know Guy is a busy man, we VX and S2 owners must represent a small % of his customer base , car and bikes. But if the data is not public, then it will be another trip to Witney to get a definitive answer.

 

I can't tell which words are yours, or paraphrased from Nitron.

 

 

 

Sorry Steve, I wasn't digging at you mate, far from it I was just making a point clear so that the info was there for everyone.  I've been told that my comments sometimes come across as scathing and I should soften them up a little (must be the German in me ).

 

All the words are mine btw, no paraprhasing

[Scuffers]

 

 

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

 

 

spoke to matt about it on saturday , even the 46 are not optimal

So, it comes back to.... Where is the official Nitron statement about what IS and ISN'T correct and whether a set bought today would be "correct"

 

 

 

Nitron are not going to be making official statements Lee, but we've been talking to them to rectify the issues with old spec shocks (circa 2009) and this issue has long since been put to bed so any new purchases will have more than sufficient droop (as they have done for some time). 

 

Whether people accept that 410mm or 420mm or 430mm open length is "correct" is up for debate but no company use 'optimal' lengths in all of their shock production as it's really not that important. 

 

here we go again, weeks of nothing then more inaccurate sub-defuse...

 

when are you going to get it into your head that having a damper with a closed length that's less than the contact point of the wishbones is plain WRONG?

 

Yes, the difference between 410, 420 and 430 open length is not such a big deal per say, but that's actually NOT THE POINT! (although I will continue to point out that <420 for a road car simply stupid)

 

with the Standard Nitrons that are out there, they have a stroke length of ~100mm, so if you have an open length less than ~426, the closed length will be less than the contact point of the wishbone.

 

Now, yes you could pack out the damper to limit it's stroke to get round this, but why the hell would you do that? why make a more expensive damper with longer stroke just so that you can pack it out to limit said stroke?

 

Why if you have a damper with 100mm stoke, would you then cripple it so you can't actually use said stroke?

 

 

Look, it's been weeks now, we all know what the solution is, can we stop going on about this and that and get the longer eyelets made so that people can start getting them sorted?

 

Instead of posting on here, how about you work on Nitron to speed this up?

[Graeme Lambert]

I've resisted commenting on this, or any of the other Nitron/Quantum/droop/gaz threads, until now but I'd just like to say that I'm delighted to hear

 

"[color=rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial, 'sans-serif';font-size:10.5pt;]3. If you have had your shocks refurbed within the last 12 months then return your shocks to Nitron and they will also be updated free of charge.[/color]"

 

Jimmy, I'm in no real rush, and I guess I'll be waiting til I take the car off the road in a few months or so and will send them to Nitron over winter if that's cool?

 

 

G

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Look, it's been weeks now, we all know what the solution is, can we stop going on about this and that and get the longer eyelets made so that people can start getting them sorted?   Instead of posting on here, how about you work on Nitron to speed this up?

Simon, nothing I said in previous post was wrong. With regards the solution it was only communicated to me this morning so it has not been known for weeks so please don't talk rubbish. I have been chasing this up regularly and have come back with the confirmed solution. Should I not have bothered? The reason we are using the open length measurement to discuss this is a, It's the easiest way of identifying the shocks effected b, It's the measurement which directly influences the droop issue that you have been banging on about since day 1. Your threads have all been droop this and droop that. The closed length issue has never been the main issue here. To be fair with the open length issue being improved this will also changed the closed length issue at the same time.  

although I will continue to point out that <420 for a road car simply stupid

Ha ha I'm glad you said that. Here's a fact for you  --  VX220 Quantum Zero, open length is 410mm, does that mean they're stupid Simon?

 

No wonder you wouldn't share the spec when you were asked. 410mm is less than Nitron 40's, 46's and NSS.  Now please go away and leave this thread be, this is the solution thread, you're only good at making problems.

[Scuffers]

Ha ha I'm glad you said that. Here's a fact for you  --  VX220 Quantum Zero, open length is 410mm, does that mean they're stupid Simon?

 

No wonder you wouldn't share the spec when you were asked. 410mm is less than Nitron 40's, 46's and NSS.  Now please go away and leave this thread be, this is the solution thread, you're only good at making problems.

 

as usual, you have completely got it wrong again.

 

as I have said before, (and you really could do with reading stuff and at least trying to understand), the zero's were spec'ed on the basis of running a single piece spring (ie, without tenders/helpers) so to then have an open length of 430 or the like and typical ride heights would end up with an un-loaded spring platform - ie, a bad idea.

 

ie. we have done what I talked about on the other thread, if you know the ride hight and application for the damper you can use a sub-set of the wishbone window, the problem with doing this is that you are obviously limited to the range of ride-heights and spring rates you can accommodate, which for the Zero's is no problem as they are only spec'ed as a road car damper with 2 spring options.

 

the important bit is that the spring/damper closed length is longer than the wishbone strike point on the chassis of the car, so no chance of bent wishbones.

 

the difference here is that the open and closed lengths are still within the wishbone window.

 

Now, you were saying?

 

(oh, and the current NTR's are 402/3mm which in my maths is still less)

[P11 COV]

Mine need refurbing anyway so I may aswell take up the refurb offer. I am wanting to replace the springs too though. I do to know what the present rates are but feel that maybe they are a little too stiff. What would be a good rate for a set up biased towards track use but suitable for say 30% road use.

Edited by P11 COV, 04 September 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

Ha ha I'm glad you said that. Here's a fact for you  --  VX220 Quantum Zero, open length is 410mm, does that mean they're stupid Simon?

 

No wonder you wouldn't share the spec when you were asked. 410mm is less than Nitron 40's, 46's and NSS.  Now please go away and leave this thread be, this is the solution thread, you're only good at making problems.

 

as usual, you have completely got it wrong again.

 

 

What did I say that was wrong....?  You keep claiming things are wrong when they are not.  It's rude but we all have to endure that apparantly....

 

The open length of the zero's is 410mm.  You said less than 420mm was stupid (not me).  Dress it up however you want but if you're saying anything below 420mm cannot offer enough droop then 410mm is bang in your own danger zone (assuming there is a decent stroke length)...  Not mine.

 

However

 

I'm really not interested in another of your arguements.  You keep banging on about this 'issue' but it's a done deal mate.  Problem noted, thanks, we're fixing it, move on.