60 replies to this topic

[Captain Vimes]

  One off or are you selling these vocky ?

The looped exhaust took me roughly five weeks to make, well perhaps three weeks was wasted trying to make it fit   Fab has been pestering me ever since to make him one (and the answer is still no   )   So I will not be making any more, but feel free to get someone to make you a copy, the torque increase was something like 50ft lb's at 3000 rpm over a tullet system    

Vocky, do you have a before and after dyno run showing the effect of the exhaust? I'd love to see the effect it had on the torque / power curve.

Edited by Captain Vimes, 26 September 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[speedster]

manifold flange ...

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4d11e188ae

 

 

 

Thanks vocky. I know the design is wrong for the vx220.... Performance wise are these any good?

 

http://www.ebay.com/...RS:1123&vxp=mtr

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=380708449118

[vocky]

 

manifold flange ...

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4d11e188ae

 

 

 

Thanks vocky. I know the design is wrong for the vx220.... Performance wise are these any good?

 

http://www.ebay.com/...RS:1123&vxp=mtr

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=380708449118

 

I used to run a weaponR for many years and found it very good for bhp and cheap to buy.

 

It's not perfect but works well enough

[vocky]

 

Vocky, do you have a before and after dyno run showing the effect of the exhaust? I'd love to see the effect it had on the torque / power curve.

 

I only have an old comparison graph showing the difference between the stage 1,2 and 3 cams, but the stage 1 and 2 have the same Full 2.5" Tullet systems fitted.

 

The rolling road operator said the stage 3 cams should of had less torque than the stage 1 and 2 cams, but as you can see that's not quite the case. You can clearly see the stage 2 cams have less torque than the stage 1 cams below 4500 rpm.

 

Due to the fact the results from the rolling road were hand written onto the image means they should be taken as an estimate, like all rolling roads they cannot be 100% correct - due to lots of stuff

 

Edited by vocky, 27 September 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[speedster]

Vocky's.

 What's the chances of getting an exhaust manufacturer to build a couple (group buy?) 

[oakmere]

I have the Tusudo manifold and it improves power across the whole rev range up to 6200 where it starts to lose out to the 4-1 manifolds available. So it depends if it will be a road or track car. Vocky wasn't there extensive head changes between stage 2 and 3 on your car?

[vocky]

Vocky wasn't there extensive head changes between stage 2 and 3 on your car?

the graph is three separate cars, all 11:1CR, ported heads, balancer delete etc

 

Mine does have huge exhaust ports, but according to the some clever people, the torque is altered with a tuned exhaust manifold and mine should have been lower than it was with such over-lapping cams.

 

Saying that I did use several exhaust calculators to get the optimium size and lengths for the exhaust, so it was an almost perfect system to the engine used in the graph.

 

Not checked it is perfectly matched to my current 2.5 engine, but it certainly seems to have more torque than before.

[oakmere]

Yes I am not doubting that the exhaust is a major factor in the differance. But the much larger exhaust ports will play apart as this has been shown to be a major bottle neck on these engines. Just look what the BTCC engine builders did to them.

[vocky]

very true, the z22se head casting is simply just not good enough for decent exhaust porting

 

I still have to look twice at my Saab cylinder head when it's upside down on the bench to see which is the inlet and which is the exhaust

Edited by vocky, 27 September 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[speedster]

very true, the z22se head casting is simply just not good enough for decent exhaust porting

 

I still have to look twice at my Saab cylinder head when it's upside down on the bench to see which is the inlet and which is the exhaust

What modifications have you done to the SAAB head vocky?

[vocky]

this was on a previous engine upgrade...

 

http://www.z22se.co....-4#post-1154755

 

click on the pictures to make them full size

Edited by vocky, 27 September 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[oakmere]

Other options:

http://img196.images...6/2536/a3ed.jpg

http://img12.imagesh...2/5484/az12.jpg

[FLD]

very true, the z22se head casting is simply just not good enough for decent exhaust porting

 

I still have to look twice at my Saab cylinder head when it's upside down on the bench to see which is the inlet and which is the exhaust

 

When I looked at mine I thought the biggest problem was the kink in the port just after the valve throat.  Do you think the size of the port has made much difference?  I've seen people go too big and it have a detrimental effect

[vocky]

Other options:

http://img196.images...6/2536/a3ed.jpg

http://img12.imagesh...2/5484/az12.jpg

I so wanted the first one

 

second looks good too

[vocky]

 

very true, the z22se head casting is simply just not good enough for decent exhaust porting

 

I still have to look twice at my Saab cylinder head when it's upside down on the bench to see which is the inlet and which is the exhaust

 

When I looked at mine I thought the biggest problem was the kink in the port just after the valve throat.  Do you think the size of the port has made much difference?  I've seen people go too big and it have a detrimental effect

 

 

I used a dremel disc (which was the same size as the valve seat base opening) as a template and made the ports so it fitted all the way along at 90 degrees to the sides, then just opened up the exit ports to maximum, which was about 1.5mm less than the Alfa gasket

[FLD]

Yeah, its the opening up the exits to the max that has caused issues with some motors I've seen.  Slows the gas speed and looses any scavenging.  Judging by your torque figures its not something you suffer from

[oakmere]

Other options:

http://img196.images...6/2536/a3ed.jpg

http://img12.imagesh...2/5484/az12.jpg

I so wanted the first one
 
second looks good too

First one is the BTCC one which Alanoo now has I think and the second one was the 2bular design which never got made which is a real shame.

[Captain Vimes]

Vocky's.

 What's the chances of getting an exhaust manufacturer to build a couple (group buy?) 

+1 Vocky, That's a nice step up from stage 2 to 3 and given the step from 1 to 2 isn't that significant you'd have to associate most of the increase to the exhaust. What was the rest of the set up with the stage 1 cams? I assume it's all on itb's?

[speedster]

 

 

 

what does bdtc mean? my english seems not elaborate enough to understand. you are running itb right? regards from germany markus

 

BTDC is Bottom Top Dead Senter, but I use BDC as term in Norway. The exhaust cam open 90 degree before piston goes in it`s lower positione known as BDC. This is used for timing the reverse pulsing correct for creating vacuume that raise the VE at some point in the Rpm scale.

 

I use ITB from AT Power with homemade inlet manifold. AT Power relised a 30 mm DOHC inlet manifold for Z22SE last week.

 

Oakmere:

The cams go to 8500 Rpm :-)

And yes the head is fully prepped for 9000 rpm.

 

 

What are you using for engine management? (edit: because I forgot to type )

 

 

 

I use Electromotive Tec GT with custom 60-2 triggersetup on a aluminium balancer.

 

Camshaft: I used the 264/268 degree setup, but intake made to little clerance so I fitted the 113351 intake (262 degree) to get 1,5 mm piston to valve clerance, and adjusting the intake 3 degree retard to make this happen.

 

Next setup will be with the 264 intake and 3-4 degree advance.

 

 

Would 285 or 290 cams not provide you with better mid and top end power? 

[BAre]

I retuned the engin three days ago. 249 RWHP at 7382 RPM and the power curv still raising up up up :-)

 

I will build a new headder for braking down the Nm curve to maks out at 4500 rpm, about 2600 rpm lower than today. I still ran the sh*t out of several nice cars on Trackday this weekend