960 replies to this topic

[smiley]

Let's be honest people.

 

Just a few years ago most were running a stage II with a CS base map, or an "optimised" map. That was it.

It was basically a bodged dbilas tuning map. Everybody was spitting out oil like crazy with that closed PCV.

 

Then we had obdtuner and harrops with a potential to reach for the moon, and to open up a whole can of worms.

And we did that.

 

Nothing to do with the B207. We are just still learning what to do, what not to do, and when we break stuff.

 

 

 

Edited by smiley, 29 September 2015 - 08:49 AM.

[Rosssco]

 

 

Nothing to do with the B207. We are just still learning what to do, what not to do, and when we break stuff.

 

 

 

 

That would make sense to me - it more or less the same engine design as the Z22SE (with improvements) hence the percieved issues seem to just be indivudal set-up / modification / calibration issues...

Edited by Rosssco, 29 September 2015 - 10:10 AM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

    Nothing to do with the B207. We are just still learning what to do, what not to do, and when we break stuff.      

  That would make sense to me - it more or less the same engine design as the Z22SE (with improvements) hence the percieved issues seem to just be indivudal set-up / modification / calibration issues...

Are the pitons and rings a known failure point yet ? Also maybe the engine requires a longer running in period to bed in Other differences ? Under piston jets Sump higher capacity ( is this just for the extra oil for the turbo ?) Smiley which cooler are you using I'm using the Saab cooler

[smiley]

Smiley which cooler are you using I'm using the Saab cooler

 

 

Z22SE cooler. (got a spare from the lotusauction just in case)  

[Exmantaa]

My temps seem spot on but it does loose power after several laps and doesn't have any real top end. Same kind of symptoms as you Martin in regards to feeling slower than a stage 2.

We've capped my revs to 6500rpm and added some ignition to hopefully combat the heat issue and pressure build up. Bedford will be the deciding factor for my build, whether I need to have a re think on everything or if it can all just be mapped and tuned out.

 

 

When she's running right it pulls like a train and the power delivery is mental top end past 5,500rpm. Left a stage 4 turbo even when they were on boost before me.

 

Really strange, as my LSJ (=SaabB207) engine loves to rev.

I have a dyno somewhere of my 2.0 with a 3.05" pulley and LSJ ecu vs. Smiley's 2,2 running with OBD tuner and 3.35 pulley...

 

Edit:

Edited by Exmantaa, 29 September 2015 - 04:09 PM.

[Exmantaa]

PS; that is power at the wheels, so the power drops a bit more with increased revs/rolling resistance.

Green is my LSJ.  The rpm scale is a bit off here, as my limit was 7200. Smiley's was set to 7050rpm max..

Edited by Exmantaa, 29 September 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[Kieran McC]

My Saab B207 is still fairly standard similer set up to Martins.,It does have the Z22se cam cover that's all with the Z22se oil cooler set up . I am venting out from the rear as with my Z22se set up.

 

The oil consumption has been very minimal. Since doing trackdays at Spa, Zandvroot, , Two at Snetterton   half a litre has been added.

 

Mine seems to rev freely up to the limiter set at 7500 RPM . 130 mph easily down the Bentley strait at Snetterton, I did run mine in for 2000 miles with 4 oil changes at various rev stages.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

1. Chill. 2.2 crank, forged pistons and rods stage 2 LSJ cams,lightened flywheel and balancer delete, home build with vocky input on Dutch ECU software Harrop charger ported head. now also putting dbilas springs in, 630cc injectors 3" exhaust & 450lph fuel pump
3.1 pulley
 


2. Graeme. 2.0 Saab B207 with standard pistons and crank, Comp cams, lightened flywheel, supertech valve springs, balancer delete, ported head, M62 charger, standalone ECU. Yet to decide on exhaust. Hoping for a solid 280bhp.
 
3. Westkenbrit. Vocky fettled B207 (ported etc..), 2.2 crank, forged internals, siemens injectors, stage 2 cams (unless advised otherwise by Vocky) uprated clutch, dutch software, harrop, Pro alloy chargecooler, and baffled fuel tank, uprated fuel pump. 350+
But Neil and Joe would know better as they are doing it all

4. Chris. Leave it sat in my back garden until i can be bothered to pull it to bits.

5. Tony. Ornament. Going to collect all the adaptations and that while I decide what to do.

6. Smiley. 2.0 with head exhaust part ported, zzp or comps cams, lightened flywheel, external crank, water injection, harrop and obdtuner.

7. ufods
B207r with standard internals, TTV lightened flywheel and balancer delete, external trigger, Sachs clutch, 3" full Tullet, Siemens 630 injektors, Dbilas valve springs, ZZP Stage 1 cams, Dutch ECU software
Harrop charger
Aiming 330 PS without water injektion

 
8.Stig_1911
 Vocky fettled B207,fully balaced bottom end, eagle rods,Wiseco pisteons,stage 2 zzp stage 2 turbo comps cams,supertec valvespirngs, balancer delete,arp bolts,TMS lighten flywheel, competiton clutch,2 intercoolers(side and roof) Using the 300 bhp dilbert kit as a base, probably dutch software.... goal 350+

9. Dominique, 2.0 Saab B207R with standard pistons/rods, homemade internal trigger wheel, ZZP stage1 cams, TTV flywheel, DBilas valve springs, standard balancer, ported head, M62 with 3.1 pully, 2,5" Tullett system, ProAlloy cooler and fuel tank, Dutch Engine magagement.
Still to decide LSJ/NFS/B207 crank, injectors and clutch.
 
10. Martin S
2.0 , Trigger wheel, new flywheel, stage 2 cams, new clutch, uorated fule pump dutch software. Its just when can it/should it be done?
 
11. Kieran
B207 2.0 L Conversion all done by CS  map Klassen / CS, M62 charger 2.9" pulley, TTV Fly wheel ,6 speed gear box with a Mocul oil cooler and scavenger system, External trigger wheel

I've just updated my spec due to maxing out the 470 CC VXR injectors

12. Bargi Saab head and Sump... is that enopugh to be called a conversion?

13. Ultimate complete saab with oem internals, dbilas springs, balancer delete, fast road cams, harrop+70mm pulley, water injection. Revlimit 7700, runningk this since January 2013, 10k km, but engine uses much oil now.
Never measured HP in the last Evolution but car runs 11.1 on the quarter mile and 7s 100-200km/h GPS

 

 
14.Artic monkey: Saab B207 with OEM internals, diblas springs, balancer delete, LSJ stage 2 cams, harrop+ 3.05" pulley (harrop group buy). Rev limit 7k.
 

 

[siztenboots]

 

My temps seem spot on but it does loose power after several laps and doesn't have any real top end. Same kind of symptoms as you Martin in regards to feeling slower than a stage 2.

We've capped my revs to 6500rpm and added some ignition to hopefully combat the heat issue and pressure build up. Bedford will be the deciding factor for my build, whether I need to have a re think on everything or if it can all just be mapped and tuned out.

 

 

When she's running right it pulls like a train and the power delivery is mental top end past 5,500rpm. Left a stage 4 turbo even when they were on boost before me.

 

Really strange, as my LSJ (=SaabB207) engine loves to rev.

I have a dyno somewhere of my 2.0 with a 3.05" pulley and LSJ ecu vs. Smiley's 2,2 running with OBD tuner and 3.35 pulley...

 

Edit:

 

 

whatever your build is exmantaa , that would be my recommendation for a base , and scrap all the UK builds sofar.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

One thing I have noticed is the obd power runs are not like dyno runs Is it possible that there might some wind resistance on the obd tuner power runs ?

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 14 October 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Has smiley got a dyno run and a obd power run to compare Or anyone else ?

[Sutol]

Has smiley got a dyno run and a obd power run to compare Or anyone else ?

Is this with Saab/harrop, I have one for z22 and m62.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Has smiley got a dyno run and a obd power run to compare Or anyone else ?

Is this with Saab/harrop, I have one for z22 and m62.

Yes please post for reference

[Sutol]

https://picasaweb.go...493476460104994

 

https://picasaweb.go...495502561858066

 

https://picasaweb.go...495500587099874

 

not sure if this will work

 

 

Edited by Sutol, 14 October 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

i will sort it mr sutol

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Mr sutols z22se stage 2  obd tuner vs RR result

 

 

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

i assume the obd tuner is at the wheel and simons RR power is the fly wheel 

[Sutol]

Thx Chill, cms originally dynoed at 250bhp on their dynojet. The operator that produced the above results said that his dynodynamics rollers would give a significantly lower figure which they did. The cms reading would equate more to the obdtuner value on the above example.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

one thing it does show is how much smoother the dyno graph is compared with obd tuner graph and probably down to wind resistance and bumps in the road 

[Exmantaa]

 

 

 

 

 

When she's running right it pulls like a train and the power delivery is mental top end past 5,500rpm. Left a stage 4 turbo even when they were on boost before me.

 

Really strange, as my LSJ (=SaabB207) engine loves to rev.

I have a dyno somewhere of my 2.0 with a 3.05" pulley and LSJ ecu vs. Smiley's 2,2 running with OBD tuner and 3.35 pulley...

 

Edit:

 

 

whatever your build is exmantaa , that would be my recommendation for a base , and scrap all the UK builds sofar.

 

 

That "build" is really not a build...; Simply planted the stock 2nd hand engine in the car with a moderate exhaust fitted, to see if the LSJ management worked in a Speedster...

And I really don't know anymore if that above dyno run (measured wheel power) was done with a Tullett 2,5 muffler or with the Turbo exhaust on it:

 

Rpm scale is off, my rpm limit was set to ~7200, Smiley to 7050rpm

[Green] Stock US 2.0 LSJ engine (= B207) with M62 + 3.05" pulley. Standard LSJ cams, stock 2.2 cast exh. manifold and a Tullett 2,5" exhaust. LSJ ecu, just running safe and mapping not optimised for max power.

[red/blue] Smiley's stock 2.2 with standard Stage 2 conversion (3.35" pulley). Full Tullett 2,5 system incl. Tullett manifold. Running with OBD tuner ecu mapping, but to my knowledge also not really optimised for max power. Just safe mapping.

 

If everything goes to plan, I'm on the rollers coming saturday with my yellow one;

 

- Stock 2.0 LSJ/Saab bottom end (incl.balancers). Lightened 5.8kg cast flywheel.

- Exhaust ported head, Stock valves + DBilas springs. ZZP LSJ stage 2 cams, dialed in to spec.  

- Harrop SC + 80mm pulley. 68mm LSJ TB and a closed cone filter intake tract

- manifold + dual pass conversion. Mounted with a Courtenay thermal gasket.

- Stock LSJ pcv system with the valve cover hose routed back to intake tract.

- Tullett 2,5" manifold, 2,5" downpipe with 300cpi cat welded in, 2,5"Tullett muffler, modified for single tip exit.

- LSJ ecu, tuned with HPTuners. Only AFR adjusted to ~11.8AFR on wideband. Still no ignition optimised for max power. (It's enough...  )

 

We'll see if the rollers can take the Harrop power...

 

Edit; If I remember I will also log the ecu saturday, so you can then compare engine parameters.

Edited by Exmantaa, 14 October 2015 - 02:45 PM.