960 replies to this topic

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Speaking of pressures etc Do you think some have exceeded what the little 2.0 engines can handle ??

[Exmantaa]

I've read about turbo conversions running 25 to 30psi on a stock LSJ block...

 

It's not the boost pressure that kills pistons and sleeves. (within reason..)  It's mostly a crappy tune/set-up that gives high peak loads due to knock and excessive heat...

Edited by Exmantaa, 15 October 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Exmantaa]

If everything goes to plan, I'm on the rollers coming saturday with my yellow one;

 

- Stock 2.0 LSJ/Saab bottom end (incl.balancers). Lightened 5.8kg cast flywheel.

- Exhaust ported head, Stock valves + DBilas springs. ZZP LSJ stage 2 cams, dialed in to spec.  

- Harrop SC + 80mm pulley. 68mm LSJ TB and a closed cone filter intake tract

- manifold + dual pass conversion. Mounted with a Courtenay thermal gasket.

- Stock LSJ pcv system with the valve cover hose routed back to intake tract.

- Tullett 2,5" manifold, 2,5" downpipe with 300cpi cat welded in, 2,5"Tullett muffler, modified for single tip exit.

- LSJ ecu, tuned with HPTuners. Only AFR adjusted to ~11.8AFR on wideband. Still no ignition optimised for max power. (It's enough...  )

 

We'll see if the rollers can take the Harrop power...

 

Edit; If I remember I will also log the ecu saturday, so you can then compare engine parameters.

 

 

Went on the rollers last saturday, together with old friends of the Dutch Manta club. They organise a yearly dyno day on the MAHA rollers of RICA tuning. Lots of old-school stuff on the rollers and even some newer Opel OPC's, but then it was time to up the numbers a bit with some Supercharged Yellow Speedster power.

Result was as expected; around 330HP with my 80mm pulley and the noise friendly exhaust system. This is how it is running for more than a year now.

Will check my log tomorrow for the engine data, but a first curve:

 

Pity that it was not revved to max rpm, as they tend to stop the measurement a bit after max power is reached. (could not see the revs, as I was sitting on the rear clam to provide some traction...)

AFR looks spot on up top at 0.8 lambda and the power probably stays flat till my max rpm of 7800. (indicating a bit of exhaust restriction there, but my log will reveal more.)

Edited by Exmantaa, 18 October 2015 - 10:23 PM.

[The Batman]

Lsj ecu ftw

[ultimate]

Do you have the balancers in?

[ultimate]

Great result for that huuuuuge pulley ;-) ZZP says the stage 2 cams should make peak power round about 7500-7800... What do you think is the limiting factor with your revs?

[Exmantaa]

Haha. Ecu should not really matter. Just the muppet behind the keyboard...

 

It's not to shabby, considering it's a complete stock LSJ/B207 bottom end. Just some exhaust headwork and a pair of decent SC cams. (And plug in the lsj sensors & wiring... )

 

Some man math:

2.0 engine 80mm pulley => 330Hp

Opltimized exhaust + ignition => ~340Hp

75mm pulley => ~360Hp

2.0 > 2.2 => 395Hp

2.0 > 2.3 => 410Hp

 

(Guess what my winter project with a Gen III 88mm bore block will be... )

 

 

 

 

[Exmantaa]

Great result for that huuuuuge pulley ;-) ZZP says the stage 2 cams should make peak power round about 7500-7800... What do you think is the limiting factor with your revs?

 

Limiting factor; most likely exhaust/cat system and not really optimized timing up top. Will check the logs how my IAT's looked during the run.

(But really; it is enough power in a Speedster on track...)

 

And I'm searching for some pics or vids of the run itself, as I heard from bystanders that my single tip exhaust glowed quite hot during that run.

 

Edit;  Yes. Balancers are still in. Complete stock botttom end!

Edited by Exmantaa, 18 October 2015 - 10:46 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

That's a super flatline

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I've seen pics in the past of men on the rear of the car for traction

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 18 October 2015 - 10:53 PM.

[Exmantaa]

That's a super flatline

 

Not flat enough. Torque dips a bit too much after 6200, so here's room for improvement...

 

Edited by Exmantaa, 18 October 2015 - 11:25 PM.

[smiley]

2.0 > 2.2 => 395Hp

2.0 > 2.3 => 410Hp

 

(Guess what my winter project with a Gen III 88mm bore block will be... )

 

 

I may want to take your car for a spin once finished (incl the brakes).

 

 

Edited by smiley, 19 October 2015 - 09:19 AM.

[Exmantaa]

It's a project car, so probably never finished...

 

(And yes, brakes are on the To-Do list.) 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

1. Chill. 2.2 crank, forged pistons and rods stage 2 LSJ cams,lightened flywheel and balancer delete, home build with vocky input on Dutch ECU software Harrop charger ported head. now also putting dbilas springs in, 630cc injectors 3" exhaust & 450lph fuel pump
3.1 pulley LS4 TB
 


2. Graeme. 2.0 Saab B207 with standard pistons and crank, Comp cams, lightened flywheel, supertech valve springs, balancer delete, ported head, M62 charger, standalone ECU. Yet to decide on exhaust. Hoping for a solid 280bhp.
 
3. Bill SCt. Vocky fettled B207 (ported etc..), 2.2 crank, forged internals, siemens injectors, stage 2 cams (unless advised otherwise by Vocky) uprated clutch, dutch software, harrop, Pro alloy chargecooler, and baffled fuel tank, uprated fuel pump. 350+
But Neil and Joe would know better as they are doing it all,

398 HP RR

4. Chris. Leave it sat in my back garden until i can be bothered to pull it to bits.

5. Tony. Ornament. Going to collect all the adaptations and that while I decide what to do.

6. Smiley. 2.0 with head exhaust part ported, zzp or comps cams, lightened flywheel, external crank, water injection, harrop and obdtuner.

7. ufods
B207r with standard internals, TTV lightened flywheel and balancer delete, external trigger, Sachs clutch, 3" full Tullet, Siemens 630 injektors, Dbilas valve springs, ZZP Stage 1 cams, Dutch ECU software
Harrop charger
Aiming 330 PS without water injektion

 
8.Stig_1911
 Vocky fettled B207,fully balaced bottom end, eagle rods,Wiseco pisteons,stage 2 zzp stage 2 turbo comps cams,supertec valvespirngs, balancer delete,arp bolts,TMS lighten flywheel, competiton clutch,2 intercoolers(side and roof) Using the 300 bhp dilbert kit as a base, probably dutch software.... goal 350+

9. Dominique, 2.0 Saab B207R with standard pistons/rods, homemade internal trigger wheel, ZZP stage1 cams, TTV flywheel, DBilas valve springs, standard balancer, ported head, M62 with 3.1 pully, 2,5" Tullett system, ProAlloy cooler and fuel tank, Dutch Engine magagement.
Still to decide LSJ/NFS/B207 crank, injectors and clutch.
 
10. Martin S
2.0 , Trigger wheel, new flywheel, stage 2 cams, new clutch, uorated fule pump dutch software. Its just when can it/should it be done?
 
11. Kieran
B207 2.0 L Conversion all done by CS  map Klassen / CS, M62 charger 2.9" pulley, TTV Fly wheel ,6 speed gear box with a Mocul oil cooler and scavenger system, External trigger wheel

I've just updated my spec due to maxing out the 470 CC VXR injectors

12. Bargi Saab head and Sump... is that enopugh to be called a conversion?

13. Ultimate complete saab with oem internals, dbilas springs, balancer delete, fast road cams, harrop+70mm pulley, water injection. Revlimit 7700, runningk this since January 2013, 10k km, but engine uses much oil now.
Never measured HP in the last Evolution but car runs 11.1 on the quarter mile and 7s 100-200km/h GPS

 

 
14.Artic monkey: Saab B207 with OEM internals, diblas springs, balancer delete, LSJ stage 2 cams, harrop+ 3.05" pulley (harrop group buy). Rev limit 7k.
 

 

15. exmantaa

 

- Stock 2.0 LSJ/Saab bottom end (incl.balancers). Lightened 5.8kg cast flywheel.

- Exhaust ported head, Stock valves + DBilas springs. ZZP LSJ stage 2 cams, dialed in to spec.  

- Harrop SC + 80mm pulley. 68mm LSJ TB and a closed cone filter intake tract

- manifold + dual pass conversion. Mounted with a Courtenay thermal gasket.

- Stock LSJ pcv system with the valve cover hose routed back to intake tract.

- Tullett 2,5" manifold, 2,5" downpipe with 300cpi cat welded in, 2,5"Tullett muffler, modified for single tip exit.

- LSJ ecu, tuned with HPTuners. Only AFR adjusted to ~11.8AFR on wideband. Still no ignition optimised for max power. (It's enough...   )

 

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 19 October 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

1. Chill. 2.2 crank, forged pistons and rods stage 2 LSJ cams,lightened flywheel and balancer delete, home build with vocky input on Dutch ECU software Harrop charger ported head. now also putting dbilas springs in, 630cc injectors 3" exhaust & 450lph fuel pump
3.1 pulley LS4 TB
 


2. Graeme. 2.0 Saab B207 with standard pistons and crank, Comp cams, lightened flywheel, supertech valve springs, balancer delete, ported head, M62 charger, standalone ECU. Yet to decide on exhaust. Hoping for a solid 280bhp.

spec changed considerably

 

 
3. Bill SC. Vocky fettled B207 (ported etc..), 2.2 crank, forged internals, siemens injectors, stage 2 cams (unless advised otherwise by Vocky) uprated clutch, dutch software, harrop, Pro alloy chargecooler, and baffled fuel tank, uprated fuel pump. 350+
But Neil and Joe would know better as they are doing it all,

398 HP RR

4. Chris. Leave it sat in my back garden until i can be bothered to pull it to bits.

5. Tony. Ornament. Going to collect all the adaptations and that while I decide what to do.

6. Smiley. 2.0 with head exhaust part ported, zzp or comps cams, lightened flywheel, external crank, water injection, harrop and obdtuner.

7. ufods
B207r with standard internals, TTV lightened flywheel and balancer delete, external trigger, Sachs clutch, 3" full Tullet, Siemens 630 injektors, Dbilas valve springs, ZZP Stage 1 cams, Dutch ECU software
Harrop charger
Aiming 330 PS without water injektion

 
8.Stig_1911
 Vocky fettled B207,fully balaced bottom end, eagle rods,Wiseco pisteons,stage 2 zzp stage 2 turbo comps cams,supertec valvespirngs, balancer delete,arp bolts,TMS lighten flywheel, competiton clutch,2 intercoolers(side and roof) Using the 300 bhp dilbert kit as a base, probably dutch software.... goal 350+

9. Dominique, 2.0 Saab B207R with standard pistons/rods, homemade internal trigger wheel, ZZP stage1 cams, TTV flywheel, DBilas valve springs, standard balancer, ported head, M62 with 3.1 pully, 2,5" Tullett system, ProAlloy cooler and fuel tank, Dutch Engine magagement.
Still to decide LSJ/NFS/B207 crank, injectors and clutch.
 
10. Martin S
2.0 , Trigger wheel, new flywheel, stage 2 cams, new clutch, uorated fule pump dutch software. Its just when can it/should it be done?
 
11. Kieran
B207 2.0 L Conversion all done by CS  map Klassen / CS, M62 charger 2.9" pulley, TTV Fly wheel ,6 speed gear box with a Mocul oil cooler and scavenger system, External trigger wheel

I've just updated my spec due to maxing out the 470 CC VXR injectors

12. Bargi Saab head and Sump... is that enopugh to be called a conversion?

13. Ultimate complete saab with oem internals, dbilas springs, balancer delete, fast road cams, harrop+70mm pulley, water injection. Revlimit 7700, runningk this since January 2013, 10k km, but engine uses much oil now.
Never measured HP in the last Evolution but car runs 11.1 on the quarter mile and 7s 100-200km/h GPS

 

 
14.Artic monkey: Saab B207 with OEM internals, diblas springs, balancer delete, LSJ stage 2 cams, harrop+ 3.05" pulley (harrop group buy). Rev limit 7k.
 

 

15. exmantaa

 

- Stock 2.0 LSJ/Saab bottom end (incl.balancers). Lightened 5.8kg cast flywheel.

- Exhaust ported head, Stock valves + DBilas springs. ZZP LSJ stage 2 cams, dialed in to spec.  

- Harrop SC + 80mm pulley. 68mm LSJ TB and a closed cone filter intake tract

- manifold + dual pass conversion. Mounted with a Courtenay thermal gasket.

- Stock LSJ pcv system with the valve cover hose routed back to intake tract.

- Tullett 2,5" manifold, 2,5" downpipe with 300cpi cat welded in, 2,5"Tullett muffler, modified for single tip exit.

- LSJ ecu, tuned with HPTuners. Only AFR adjusted to ~11.8AFR on wideband. Still no ignition optimised for max power. (It's enough...   )

 

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 19 October 2015 - 12:14 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

1. Chill. 2.2 crank, forged pistons and rods stage 2 LSJ cams,lightened flywheel and balancer delete, home build with vocky input on Dutch ECU software Harrop charger ported head. now also putting dbilas springs in, 630cc injectors 3" exhaust & 450lph fuel pump
3.1 pulley LS4 TB
 


2. Graeme. 2.0 Saab B207 with standard pistons and crank, Comp cams, lightened flywheel, supertech valve springs, balancer delete, ported head, M62 charger, standalone ECU. Yet to decide on exhaust. Hoping for a solid 280bhp.

spec changed considerably

 

 
3. Bill SC. Vocky fettled B207 (ported etc..), 2.2 crank, forged internals, siemens injectors, stage 2 cams (unless advised otherwise by Vocky) uprated clutch, dutch software, harrop, Pro alloy chargecooler, and baffled fuel tank, uprated fuel pump. 350+
But Neil and Joe would know better as they are doing it all,

398 HP RR

4. Chris. Leave it sat in my back garden until i can be bothered to pull it to bits.

5. Tony. Ornament. Going to collect all the adaptations and that while I decide what to do.

6. Smiley. 2.0 with head exhaust part ported, zzp or comps cams, lightened flywheel, external crank, water injection, harrop and obdtuner.

 

7. ufods
B207r with standard internals, TTV lightened flywheel and balancer delete, external trigger, Sachs clutch, 3" full Tullet, Siemens 630 injektors, Dbilas valve springs, ZZP Stage 1 cams, Dutch ECU software
Harrop charger
Aiming 330 PS without water injektion

 
8.Stig_1911
 Vocky fettled B207,fully balaced bottom end, eagle rods,Wiseco pisteons,stage 2 zzp stage 2 turbo comps cams,supertec valvespirngs, balancer delete,arp bolts,TMS lighten flywheel, competiton clutch,2 intercoolers(side and roof) Using the 300 bhp dilbert kit as a base, probably dutch software.... goal 350+

9. Dominique, 2.0 Saab B207R with standard pistons/rods, homemade internal trigger wheel, ZZP stage1 cams, TTV flywheel, DBilas valve springs, standard balancer, ported head, M62 with 3.1 pully, 2,5" Tullett system, ProAlloy cooler and fuel tank, Dutch Engine magagement.
Still to decide LSJ/NFS/B207 crank, injectors and clutch.
 
10. Martin S
2.0 , Trigger wheel, new flywheel, stage 2 cams, new clutch, uorated fule pump dutch software. Its just when can it/should it be done?
 
11. Kieran
B207 2.0 L Conversion all done by CS  map Klassen / CS, M62 charger 2.9" pulley, TTV Fly wheel ,6 speed gear box with a Mocul oil cooler and scavenger system, External trigger wheel

I've just updated my spec due to maxing out the 470 CC VXR injectors

12. Bargi Saab head and Sump... is that enopugh to be called a conversion?

13. Ultimate complete saab with oem internals, dbilas springs, balancer delete, fast road cams, harrop+70mm pulley, water injection. Revlimit 7700, runningk this since January 2013, 10k km, but engine uses much oil now.
Never measured HP in the last Evolution but car runs 11.1 on the quarter mile and 7s 100-200km/h GPS

 

 
14.Artic monkey: Saab B207 with OEM internals, diblas springs, balancer delete, LSJ stage 2 cams, harrop+ 3.05" pulley (harrop group buy). Rev limit 7k.
 

 

15. exmantaa

 

- Stock 2.0 LSJ/Saab bottom end (incl.balancers). Lightened 5.8kg cast flywheel.

- Exhaust ported head, Stock valves + DBilas springs. ZZP LSJ stage 2 cams, dialed in to spec.  

- Harrop SC + 80mm pulley. 68mm LSJ TB and a closed cone filter intake tract

- manifold + dual pass conversion. Mounted with a Courtenay thermal gasket.

- Stock LSJ pcv system with the valve cover hose routed back to intake tract.

- Tullett 2,5" manifold, 2,5" downpipe with 300cpi cat welded in, 2,5"Tullett muffler, modified for single tip exit.

- LSJ ecu, tuned with HPTuners. Only AFR adjusted to ~11.8AFR on wideband. Still no ignition optimised for max power. (It's enough...   )

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

ive tried to bring some of the power runs together 

some of the build specs have changed so if you could update your build info it would be appreciated

 

 

[smiley]

6. Smiley. 2.0 with head ported, stage 1 comps cams, lightened flywheel, external crank, M62 with 3.05", 2.5" tullett with oem turdo cat welded in and obdtuner (no ignition timing done yet).

 

Edited by smiley, 19 October 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

1. Chill. 2.2 crank, forged pistons and rods stage 2 LSJ cams,lightened flywheel and balancer delete, home build with vocky input on Dutch ECU software Harrop charger ported head. now also putting dbilas springs in, 630cc injectors 3" exhaust & 450lph fuel pump
3.1 pulley LS4 TB
 


2. Graeme. 2.0 Saab B207 with standard pistons and crank, Comp cams, lightened flywheel, supertech valve springs, balancer delete, ported head, M62 charger, standalone ECU. Yet to decide on exhaust. Hoping for a solid 280bhp.
spec changed considerably
 

 
3. Bill SC. Vocky fettled B207 (ported etc..), 2.2 crank, forged internals, siemens injectors, stage 2 cams (unless advised otherwise by Vocky) uprated clutch, dutch software, harrop, Pro alloy chargecooler, and baffled fuel tank, uprated fuel pump. 350+
But Neil and Joe would know better as they are doing it all,
398 HP RR

4. Chris. Leave it sat in my back garden until i can be bothered to pull it to bits.

5. Tony. Ornament. Going to collect all the adaptations and that while I decide what to do.

6. Smiley. 2.0 with head ported, stage 1 comps cams, lightened flywheel, external crank, M62 with 3.05", 2.5" tullett with oem turdo cat welded in and obdtuner (no ignition timing done yet).



7. ufods
B207r with standard internals, TTV lightened flywheel and balancer delete, external trigger, Sachs clutch, 3" full Tullet, Siemens 630 injektors, Dbilas valve springs, ZZP Stage 1 cams, Dutch ECU software
Harrop charger
Aiming 330 PS without water injektion

 
8.Stig_1911
 Vocky fettled B207,fully balaced bottom end, eagle rods,Wiseco pisteons,stage 2 zzp stage 2 turbo comps cams,supertec valvespirngs, balancer delete,arp bolts,TMS lighten flywheel, competiton clutch,2 intercoolers(side and roof) Using the 300 bhp dilbert kit as a base, probably dutch software.... goal 350+

9. Dominique, 2.0 Saab B207R with standard pistons/rods, homemade internal trigger wheel, ZZP stage1 cams, TTV flywheel, DBilas valve springs, standard balancer, ported head, M62 with 3.1 pully, 2,5" Tullett system, ProAlloy cooler and fuel tank, Dutch Engine magagement.
Still to decide LSJ/NFS/B207 crank, injectors and clutch.
 
10. Martin S
2.0 , Trigger wheel, new flywheel, stage 2 cams, new clutch, uorated fule pump dutch software. Its just when can it/should it be done?
 
11. Kieran
B207 2.0 L Conversion all done by CS  map Klassen / CS, M62 charger 2.9" pulley, TTV Fly wheel ,6 speed gear box with a Mocul oil cooler and scavenger system, External trigger wheel

I've just updated my spec due to maxing out the 470 CC VXR injectors

12. Bargi Saab head and Sump... is that enopugh to be called a conversion?

13. Ultimate complete saab with oem internals, dbilas springs, balancer delete, fast road cams, harrop+70mm pulley, water injection. Revlimit 7700, runningk this since January 2013, 10k km, but engine uses much oil now.
Never measured HP in the last Evolution but car runs 11.1 on the quarter mile and 7s 100-200km/h GPS
 

 
14.Artic monkey: Saab B207 with OEM internals, diblas springs, balancer delete, LSJ stage 2 cams, harrop+ 3.05" pulley (harrop group buy). Rev limit 7k.
 

 
15. exmantaa
 [color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]
- Stock 2.0 LSJ/Saab bottom end (incl.balancers). Lightened 5.8kg cast flywheel.[/color][/font][color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]
- Exhaust ported head, Stock valves + DBilas springs. ZZP LSJ stage 2 cams, dialed in to spec.  [/color][/font][color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]
- Harrop SC + 80mm pulley. 68mm LSJ TB and a closed cone filter intake tract[/color][/font][color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]
- manifold + dual pass conversion. Mounted with a Courtenay thermal gasket.[/color][/font][color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]
- Stock LSJ pcv system with the valve cover hose routed back to intake tract.[/color][/font][color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]
- Tullett 2,5" manifold, 2,5" downpipe with 300cpi cat welded in, 2,5"Tullett muffler, modified for single tip exit.[/color][/font][color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]
- LSJ ecu, tuned with HPTuners. Only AFR adjusted to ~11.8AFR on wideband. Still no ignition optimised for max power. (It's enough...   )[/color][/font]
 

[Exmantaa]

Another 2.0 + Harrop 80mm on the same MAHA  rollers => Speedster4fun's Z20NET (=B207) engine with HPTuners.

Will look for his engine specs at that time, but the rpm reading was a bit off and so was the power. Basically he had the same specs as my engine, minus the cams and minus balancers, but he had a decat 2,5" downpipe and maybe water injection there.

(run in 5th gear; doing 270Km/h on the rollers    ):