960 replies to this topic

[Graeme Lambert]

Won't me to bring mine so we can all shout vtec just kicked in all together?!??

You mean 'VTEC just kicked in, Yo'? And yes. Why not

[The Batman]

off course L will the rollers be able to handle it?

Edited by The Batman, 21 October 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

To get all the Harrop cars together wil be a logistical night mare Why can't bill just do a power run with obd tuner showing all the inputs next to the graph will prove the accuracy of the RR It could be that matt has found a sweet spot in bills car that somebody else ha sent found

[Graeme Lambert]

To get all the Harrop cars together wil be a logistical night mare Why can't bill just do a power run with obd tuner showing all the inputs next to the graph will prove the accuracy of the RR It could be that matt has found a sweet spot in bills car that somebody else ha sent found

 

Why logistical nightmare?

 

A few in bedfordshire (Me, Lee, Nick etc), Essex (Artic etc) and a few ooop north (You, Chris, Luke etc). 

 

So we find somewhere with a rolling road that we can all get to - if we want to - book well in advance so people have the opportunity to plan it etc. Also, remember, my suggestion is that this would simply be a .org rolling road day, so n/a, turbo, ITB, SC eitehr standard or modded would be welcome.

 

If you just want to prove the accuracy of the Jamsport dyno, then yes, I guess a power run from Bill's car will go some way to doing that.

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Ill try and get bills on 1320's dyno. I know all the settings etc for that dyno and can overlay to bargi/lee's maps.

[fezzasus]

Ill try and get bills on 1320's dyno. I know all the settings etc for that dyno and can overlay to bargi/lee's maps.

 

Matt, what do you think is the critical difference between B207 engine builds, you've suggested the exhaust a few times but I don't expect to see that much of a difference between 3" systems. Is it a hardware or software impact? do you think OBD tuner is providing enough control to fully optimise operation?

[Exmantaa]

Power is coming from the airmass shoved through the engine, so with an SC it's easy => Supercharger flow/rpm dictates the airflow and the engine's VE; head & exhaust restriction dictates how much you loose from this. (And creates intake pressure; boost is a measurement of restriction..   )

Substract the powerloss from driving the superchager and you get your crank BHP.   

(All assuming your ignition is not tuned so that all your power is retarded through the exhaust ports...)

 

I have an airmass sensor and that indicated a max airlow of ~289g/s; with this you can calculate the (approx.) theoretical engine power.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Ill try and get bills on 1320's dyno. I know all the settings etc for that dyno and can overlay to bargi/lee's maps.

Are you expecting much difference ?

[Exmantaa]

If he does that; let him log that pull in OBD, so you can see the engine data like ignition and MAP.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Ill try and get bills on 1320's dyno. I know all the settings etc for that dyno and can overlay to bargi/lee's maps.

Are you expecting much difference ?

  

If he does that; let him log that pull in OBD, so you can see the engine data like ignition and MAP.

That would kill more than one bird with a stone Lol I think I have a copy of bills map somewhere if he dosent mind me sharing it

[Bill SC]

Said before neither Matt nor I mind if you share the map Chill and I will get round to doing an OBD power run for you for comparison, maybe this weekend if it's dry enough, but I've already been saying I'll do it for months and not done it, so I'm not promising... The pulley on mine is the one that came with the Harrop group buy that Cliffie did for us back in 2012, looking at pm's (which took a while to find) this was a 75mm (2.95"..?). The only other potential differences between mine and Chills engine that I'm aware of (other than Matts exhaust) is mine got some extra porting from Vocky because, and I quote "I was bored" I mean seriously, how much of a petrol head is that man....!!!?? Actually, looking at Chills signature, mine doesn't have a lightened flywheel either, although I have no idea if that's even relevant..? No meth, no water, no nos or anything else anyone can think of... Oh, I do use petrol... Usually the expensive one from Shell because I'm gullible... If it's interesting for people and Matt can be arsed then he is welcome to take it and do another power run on a different RR and get simultaneous readings from OBD, but I won't be paying for the rolling road time, because I don't care enough to find out if the other run was a fluke or "generous" rollers. Regardless of whether my car actually makes 300 or 400 whatever's, it will be getting exactly zero further power mods. It's already borderline too fast for me and I'm seriously thinking about getting a bigger pulley and dialling it back a bit so I don't have to wear adult diapers every time I even think about getting near full throttle...

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Bit late to the party, just chucked up a few graphs yesterday to help with the thread but haven't read any of it.

 

Being really honest now, I know this sounds silly, but till today I have never looked at the torque numbers on any of the SC cars I have mapped. I know that sounds like rubbish but its honest (maby talked with Graeme about it but pointed him in the direction of Jam-sport). I think its because I'm not interested to some extent in the numbers. In my eyes if calibrated correctly an engine will make what the engine makes, if it doesn't 'make enough' that is down to the engine builder etc. My job is to make sure it is calibrated correctly. If the ignition and fueling is calibrated, the outcome in number form is what it is.

 

So when mapping I do a base run, then calibrate the fueling and ignition in stages to optimise it. In some cases like Bill's and the SC Exige I was mapping today they made massive gains in torque and power over the whole rev range every time I made changed. Bargi's less increase in peak numbers but gains and corrected some miss calibration (or as best as I could with the time I had on the dyno with obd).

 

Regarding the 400ftlb from Bills..........yeah think that is bollocks. Don't even think Graeme's is true. But kinda goes back to my first point that I was never bothered, just kept calibrating till it was optimised.

 

I have gone back to using the dyno I always did (the one I mapped Lee, Bargi's and most other cars on), I know it, its consistent and reliable. Also numbers seem accurate but again not really bothered what it makes. 

 

I will run bills up on it at some point in the next month or so. And once Graemes is done at the bodyshop I will do the final mapping on that and do it on that dyno.

[Graeme Lambert]

Bit late to the party, just chucked up a few graphs yesterday to help with the thread but haven't read any of it.

 

Being really honest now, I know this sounds silly, but till today I have never looked at the torque numbers on any of the SC cars I have mapped. I know that sounds like rubbish but its honest (maby talked with Graeme about it but pointed him in the direction of Jam-sport). I think its because I'm not interested to some extent in the numbers. In my eyes if calibrated correctly an engine will make what the engine makes, if it doesn't 'make enough' that is down to the engine builder etc. My job is to make sure it is calibrated correctly. If the ignition and fueling is calibrated, the outcome in number form is what it is.

 

So when mapping I do a base run, then calibrate the fueling and ignition in stages to optimise it. In some cases like Bill's and the SC Exige I was mapping today they made massive gains in torque and power over the whole rev range every time I made changed. Bargi's less increase in peak numbers but gains and corrected some miss calibration (or as best as I could with the time I had on the dyno with obd).

 

Regarding the 400ftlb from Bills..........yeah think that is bollocks. Don't even think Graeme's is true. But kinda goes back to my first point that I was never bothered, just kept calibrating till it was optimised.

 

I have gone back to using the dyno I always did (the one I mapped Lee, Bargi's and most other cars on), I know it, its consistent and reliable. Also numbers seem accurate but again not really bothered what it makes. 

 

I will run bills up on it at some point in the next month or so. And once Graemes is done at the bodyshop I will do the final mapping on that and do it on that dyno.

 

Yup we talked torque after my initial run, as not only did I think the curve on mine looked more like a turbo graph, I suspected the lb ft figure was actually an Nm figure. Sam @ Jam-sport confirmed it was lb ft though, and as far as he was concerned the figure was accurate.

 

I haven't driven my car, and that's what matters really. Hopefully it'll be ready for final mapping in early 2016 Matt.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Don't no what the weather is like down there at the moment but my car is certainly a lot more powerful in the cooler conditions than it has been all through the summer months Look forward to see if you have a dip in the obd tuner results and on the RR or maybe there will be none Out of interest bill what kind of speeds where you hitting down the bentley straight at snetterton I'm guessing with your lower rev limit you end up in 5 th gear I was pretty much in the Rev limit in 4th gear @ 7500 revs I think your lower Rev minutes will really help keep you intake temps lower Look forward to the results Like you said it dosent matter but would be interesting if you get the dip straight line that I see If you don't it could be down to extra porting or exhaust Or just somthing that obd picks up

[Bill SC]

On the speedo it was 145'ish..? But it's all relative as I'm not that good behind the wheel, Matt hits (what looks like) 150+ I think - Matt...?

 

This is where he will shout at me for looking at the speedo. Apparently I'm not supposed to know how fast I'm going because I'm supposed to be looking where I'm going or something....

 

But yes, if you get a good exit speed you are into 5th well before the braking point, I'd guess half way down the straight...? This is also different for me than for Matt though.

 

Matt and I both noticed the car was down on power at Bedford, we were not sure if it was the glorious hot day we had or the db reducer stuck up it's arse... Probably a bit of both...

 

There was a camera in the car at the national but I only drove it once as I was playing in the fiesta and my mate who was in mine refused to video himself...!

 

If anyone ever has the opportunity to get Matt to take you out in the fiesta, do it, it's freaking hilarious...!

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I think it's fair to say i didn't get out of any corner at snett well down to my setup Which im hoping matt will still be sorting out for me Unless I've upset him

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 22 October 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

 15-07-02 203249 MB Racing New Exhaust.smp   19.01KB   18 downloads

 

 

here is BillSC map for anyone who is interested 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Just for the record you use the map at your own risk No come backs on me bill or matt 😜

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Any updates on your runs Bill, Matt 

 

 

[Bill SC]

Yes, update is haven't driven the car in a month....

Will get there eventually... Sorry...