84 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

Because your's were presumably spec'd properly in the first place. These are a bit of a bodge, for the earlier NTR's, by fitting longer bottom eyelet sections to address the lack of droop issue.

[siztenboots]

my ancient ntr40 and new 46
 

[Crabash]

Because your's were presumably spec'd properly in the first place. These are a bit of a bodge, for the earlier NTR's, by fitting longer bottom eyelet sections to address the lack of droop issue.

 

Yeah, what I meant was how can they have been so wrong in the 1st place. Not sure you can blame Nitron really as they supply what is asked for by a particular person or company (not meaning you Paul).

Dropped the ball abit by assuming the spec was right though and supplying as a kit.

[PaulCP]

by fitting longer bottom eyelet sections to address the lack of droop issue.

Which 99.9% of us never knew about because the particular issue never affected us Kieran is having my modified ones (no helper springs) fitted shortly so no doubt he will let you know if they went on OK

[techieboy]

 

by fitting longer bottom eyelet sections to address the lack of droop issue.

Which 99.9% of us never knew about because the particular issue never affected us

 

 

Absolutely. I'm still not convinced it's anything other than a "theoretical" problem in reality. In the 7 years I've had the "original" NTR's, it's never felt like a problem to me and despite it's "limited" travel, still seems to have enough droop to cope with anything short of cornering on two wheels. Less than ideal? Maybe. Show stopping killer? Nope.

Edited by techieboy, 03 December 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[fezzasus]

Pretty sure droop is a marketing term.

[Crabash]

If the dampers had enough droop built in from the start we would have always needed helpers or tenders, the sort of weight of spring we use meant they were not compressed very much when stood on the ground therefor it didn't take much droop to unseat the spring. In my case running below 135mm meant the spring was not pinched at full droop and would even hear it becoming unseated in bumpy heavy breaking zones.

Not a prob if you don't have much droop

[P11 COV]

From what I have been told the lengthening of the eyelet is the cheaper solution. The real solution would be to have a longer body but they're not gonna do that for free.      

Does sending in for refurb with larger eyelids automatically include these helper springs?

  No, New springs are your decision. If you want helpers I would have thought you need new springs as the main ones will need to be shorter. Also helpers are £50 a go just like the main springs.      

Feed the issue back and see what they advise. It is their problem if you're my happy with the product and they'll help for sure. I wish I had time to help more but I'm über busy and rarely on the forum these days

    I think I will, its just a pain as it may mean returning stuff by post again and another week or two with the car on stands in the garage.      

Looking at these pics its a longer bottom eye.  This means the spring platform is moved up the body by the same amount (plus any thickness of the helper / platform assembly).  Moving it up takes the platform closer to the subframe.    Might be the fix needs to be longer tubes rather than longer eyes?  Aimy, you'll need to check yours if your on longer eyes.  It might be that the helper length just pushes it over the tolerance threshold.

    I think you are spot on. If you add helpers to existing springs I would have thought it would be worse as the existing springs will be longer?

Edited by P11 COV, 03 December 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[Bumblebee]

Bugger, just thinking what I should do as I've been told I now need the helpers but going by posts above this that I may need new springs (I payed CF earlier this year for new springs too)

[PaulCP]

Bugger, just thinking what I should do as I've been told I now need the helpers but going by posts above this that I may need new springs (I payed CF earlier this year for new springs too)

What's the problem? Just fit them and forget the modification to a problem that 99.9% never experienced (no matter how many "sudden experts" now claimed to have!) and never knew existed. They've been the preferred shock of choice for 8 years and now people are doubting them by allowing themselves to be brainwashed. OK so they are compromised a little, along with many other things on the car

[Bumblebee]

Tbh i wouldn't normally be fussed as I've not noticed the "droop" issue but seen as i have had my suspension overalled and built to CF spec I wanted them to the current specs. I've had the eyelets fitted but now I've been told I need helpers as the springs are loose on the seats when jacked up

Edited by Bumblebee, 03 December 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[fezzasus]

 

  I think I will, its just a pain as it may mean returning stuff by post again and another week or two with the car on stands in the garage.

 

 

Paul, They're based in Witney and very accommodating. I would strongly suggest taking the parts down yourself if you can so you can discuss the issue face to face. When I needed parts for my Nitrons I found it a very useful experience.

[PaulCP]

How often do you drive it whilst its jacked up? How often do you jack it up? When people tell you you need something that they can sell its time to engage your own brain and decide whether you really NEED or just WANT what they think you need. Wonder what the next "VX bandwagon to jump on" will be once this one is put to bed

Edited by PaulCP, 03 December 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Bumblebee]

I think loose springs are an mot failure or at least they was last time I spoke to my mot guy

[Crabash]

 

Bugger, just thinking what I should do as I've been told I now need the helpers but going by posts above this that I may need new springs (I payed CF earlier this year for new springs too)

What's the problem? Just fit them and forget the modification to a problem that 99.9% never experienced (no matter how many "sudden experts" now claimed to have!) and never knew existed. They've been the preferred shock of choice for 8 years and now people are doubting them by allowing themselves to be brainwashed. OK so they are compromised a little, along with many other things on the car

 

 

I must say that it was the opposite way for me, I had the "right" spec but without the helpers (my spec of damper always needed then, except they don't like to tell you that you need to spend extra cash to have "their" Nitrons instead of someone else  so they tell you, you don't really need them to close the deal), I knew it was not right after 1 trackday but everyone else did nothing but rave about them so rather than start a fight I just sorted it myself and learned a bit along the way. People were brainwashed in the 1st place not because a potential problem was found.

Many people just fit them and are fine as far as they know, thats great if you are happy carry on. I wasn't and if you are spending upwards of £1100 why shouldn't you want to know the truth and potential pitfalls.

[Kieran McC]

A piece of advice required ,when I fit different shocks is a full geo required or can just the ride height be adjusted ?

[PaulCP]

I think loose springs are an mot failure or at least they was last time I spoke to my mot guy

I believe that you are correct. I wonder what ride height you would have to run to stop the springs from disengaging and don't forget that to fit helpers you need to reduce the main spring length so perhaps there's a compromise to the compromise.

[PaulCP]

  I must say that it was the opposite way for me, I had the "right" spec but without the helpers (my spec of damper always needed then, except they don't like to tell you that you need to spend extra cash to have "their" Nitrons instead of someone else  so they tell you, you don't really need them to close the deal), I knew it was not right after 1 trackday but everyone else did nothing but rave about them so rather than start a fight I just sorted it myself and learned a bit along the way. People were brainwashed in the 1st place not because a potential problem was found. Many people just fit them and are fine as far as they know, thats great if you are happy carry on. I wasn't and if you are spending upwards of £1100 why shouldn't you want to know the truth and potential pitfalls.

To a point I agree with you. If you know what you are looking at and are aware of a problem it should be investigated and corrected. My point is that most (including me) were only not aware but also never experienced any problem. You felt that things were not right when on track, I would wager that over 50% of Nitron equipped VXs never go near a track so most are now trying to fix a problem that doesn't really exist for them hence my "bandwagon" comment

[Ormes]

Tbh i wouldn't normally be fussed as I've not noticed the "droop" issue but seen as i have had my suspension overalled and built to CF spec I wanted them to the current specs. I've had the eyelets fitted but now I've been told I need helpers as the springs are loose on the seats when jacked up

On the front, rear or both?  If front only, then fitting the EP top mounts would help and potentially negate helpers?

[PaulCP]

A piece of advice required ,when I fit different shocks is a full geo required or can just the ride height be adjusted ?

If you are lowering from say 135 rear to 120 (example only, i doubt you should go that low) then the wishbone angle will change which I believe will affect camber and potentially castor settings However, I'm no expert so let others comment who are more informed

Edited by PaulCP, 03 December 2013 - 07:14 PM.