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Project 'cash In The Attic' - Sc Conversion

stage2 supercharger

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#61 Dazzx10r

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:10 AM

The front crash box on the VX is the same as the S2 Elise, I'll get you some pics of the radiators fitted in place this evening. The Fiat rad sits under you existing radiator. Whilst we're on the subject, when I first got my car with the original K sereis engine in, I got cought up in a traffic jam and the car over heated and blew the plastic ends of the radiator, so I took the radiator out and we made aluminium ends for it, I have pics of that some where.



#62 Exmantaa

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:10 PM

I like the idea of obd software but I'm not sold on having to map the car myself and possibly screwing it up. On the plus side it would be interesting to fit the exhaust while NA and see what difference the software makes on a fairly standard NA while acquiring the SC bits...

you don't NEED to map it, as it comes with a base map that is probably already 90% right for your mods....

Edited by Exmantaa, 13 January 2014 - 12:12 PM.


#63 smiley

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:27 PM

Your obdtuner basemap can be compared with what you will get from CS, with maybe slightly more accurate. based on mods.

Both obdtuner and CS basemap will be set to rich, in order for your engine not to melt. (safetly precaution).

As long as you drive rich, you´re using petrol to cool the pistons and slowly destroy your cat.

 

With CS, you then go to them to finalise the map, based on afr and ignition on the RR.

With obdtuner you do these 2 in a seperate proces by activating learning mode, going for a drive untill your eml stops blinking, and then you write the results to the ecu with 1 push of the button.



#64 Captain Vimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:31 PM

Presumably I need a wideband sensor in the downpipe to get this working? Is there an idiots guide to OBD tuner somewhere that I can read without having to read the whole 60 page thread on here?

#65 techieboy

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:36 PM

Wideband not required, though probably worth having for maximum accuracy. Manual and software here.



#66 smiley

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:29 PM

obdtuner may be better, but it does not really allign with the cheap ass pikey vision of the project.

(ie 400 extra spend on something you would like to avoid)



#67 Andrew aka Stuwy

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:33 PM

Let me know when you want to start, I'll lend a hand :)

 

plus have two cars side by side helps when connectors don't seem to go anywhere :lol:

 

Would be very interested it see if you go dutch ;)

 



#68 A-F_20

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:36 PM

I used a 25 row Mocal oil cooler and with Mocal rubber mounting bobbins it was a perfect fit. I think I paid about £50 for the rad off ebay.

 

My conversion cost less than £1500 - however I spent ages trawling ebay waiting for cheap parts to come up. 

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...2-/350890086163

 

 

Posted Image

 

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#69 Captain Vimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:11 PM

obdtuner may be better, but it does not really allign with the cheap ass pikey vision of the project.

(ie 400 extra spend on something you would like to avoid)

 

Not quite the way I would have described it.... I want a good quality conversion but I don't see the point throwing money away as I'm a cheap arse'd git at heart and love a bargain. However, if it makes sense to do something as there's a genuine benefit, then it can come in scope of the project (I'm sure I spotted some share certificates in the loft the other day, no idea how they got up there   ;) ).

 

Once you add in final mapping and petrol costs OBD tuner is only £250 more expensive so I'm still undecided at the moment. Not something that needs a decision straight away though. I'm going to look into it a bit more.


Edited by Captain Vimes, 13 January 2014 - 09:13 PM.


#70 Captain Vimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:23 PM

I used a 25 row Mocal oil cooler and with Mocal rubber mounting bobbins it was a perfect fit. I think I paid about £50 for the rad off ebay.

 

My conversion cost less than £1500 - however I spent ages trawling ebay waiting for cheap parts to come up. 

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...2-/350890086163

 

 

...Pictures....

 

Thanks - I like that. Presumably you had to drill through the crash box to get the pipes out the top?



#71 Captain Vimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:25 PM

Let me know when you want to start, I'll lend a hand :)

 

plus have two cars side by side helps when connectors don't seem to go anywhere :lol:

 

Would be very interested it see if you go dutch ;)

 

 

Thanks Stuwy - would be great to have your car as a reference point. I will need all the help I can get!



#72 smiley

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:52 PM

 

Once you add in final mapping and petrol costs OBD tuner is only £250 more expensive so I'm still undecided at the moment. Not something that needs a decision straight away though. I'm going to look into it a bit more.

 

The main problem is that most people just want a good mapping, and will not touch the software after that.

I also don't know how much better obd tuner can bring you on optimal afr versus an RR session at CS for a stage II. 

 

Basicly as soon as you will need a new mapping after your SC conversion due to another hardware change, you hit the break even point. 

As soon as you go near stage III, obd is a winner, as by then the 8 bits fuel table on the oem ecu requires sacrifices.

 

 

My jest on the project description may have come out a bit poor. Sorry.



#73 Captain Vimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:06 PM

 

My jest on the project description may have come out a bit poor. Sorry.

 

Your project description was pretty accurate   :grouphug:

 

I don't plan on other changes once the basic stage 2 is done (no one ever does right...) but there are two bits that really interest me for stage 2.

 

  • The first is the ability to run the TMAP sensor - I want to be able to run long sessions on track without worrying about the engine. I'm just trying to figure out what would happen in the software when intake temps start to climb too high (i.e. 50 C) does it pull back the ignition? Would this also allow better fuelling for day to day running as the additional fuel isn't needed to cool the charge?
  • Second is cold start... Is this much better with OBD tuner?

 

P.S. Thanks for all the input. It's all appreciated!



#74 oakmere

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:41 PM

You could also get the OBD tuner before you install the SC and get used to the mapping whilst still N/A. Then get the base map for stage 2 and you will be confident in what you are doing come SC mapping.

#75 smiley

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

Both oem ecu and obdtuner start dialing back ignition as from 57 degrees celcius temp.

One of the dutch drivers asked Peter to tone that down a bit at zandvoort this year, but it's in there as a safety precaution, so left in there as default. 

If you feel like you will be hitting high temps, you need to consider water injection. (on hot days, the dual pass mod, large header tank and very expensive max size pro alloy prerad is not helping one bit) 

Maybe leevx's new manifold design also helps. Time will tell.

 

By the time you hit 90 degrees, you wil have lost about 50 bhp....isch.  :mellow:

 

 

As for cold start. The typical CS 3 cough startup was gone when i switched to obdtuner.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by smiley, 13 January 2014 - 11:07 PM.


#76 Tony H

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:30 PM

My cs map is rubbish until the engine is fully warm. There's a dreadful flat spot about 2k rpm that's nearly made me butt The steering wheel a few times. That alone has got me lusting for the Dutch ecu.

#77 Captain Vimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:50 PM

Both oem ecu and obdtuner start dialing back ignition as from 57 degrees celcius temp. . . (on hot days, the dual pass mod, large header tank and very expensive max size pro alloy prerad is not helping one bit)   

But doesn't the oem option limit temp measurement to pre-charger temps? Be great if it could be post charger to protect the engine. This is an area that puts me off the pro-alloy set up. On a hot day at track speed I'd have thought the heat soak from the engine radiator would affect the cc rad. A completely seperate cooler like posted above in clean air behind the grille seems like it would be more effective at cooling temps to ambient. Without logging it's difficult to say...

#78 Captain Vimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:53 PM

You could also get the OBD tuner before you install the SC and get used to the mapping whilst still N/A. Then get the base map for stage 2 and you will be confident in what you are doing come SC mapping.

This is a very tempting option. I have the exhaust and will be getting the 68mm TB shortly. I'd be really interested to add these bits one at a time and measure the benefit of each and learn the software with the SC following later in the year...

#79 Exmantaa

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:15 AM

 

 

My jest on the project description may have come out a bit poor. Sorry.

 

Your project description was pretty accurate   :grouphug:

 

I don't plan on other changes once the basic stage 2 is done (no one ever does right...) but there are two bits that really interest me for stage 2.

 

  • The first is the ability to run the TMAP sensor - I want to be able to run long sessions on track without worrying about the engine. I'm just trying to figure out what would happen in the software when intake temps start to climb too high (i.e. 50 C) does it pull back the ignition? Would this also allow better fuelling for day to day running as the additional fuel isn't needed to cool the charge?
  • Second is cold start... Is this much better with OBD tuner?

 

P.S. Thanks for all the input. It's all appreciated!

 

 

That statement does not really go well with the low budget build, does it... :happy:

 

I would not skimp on OBD and fit the best chargecooling you can afford + some extra. :rolleyes:
 



#80 The Batman

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:26 AM

Long sessions don't act well with the z22 to be fair. Make sure you constantly check oil levels :) I like to think a Saab sump is a must on z22 track cars




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